Proposal for Co8 patch 3.05

[Morpheus]

On the Atari boards and elsewhere, I often see people complaining about bugs in the Co8 patch 3.04 that have already been fixed in moebius2778's temple.zip (for example the spiked chain bug). What about integrating those fixes into the Co8 package and releasing the whole as Co8 3.05? Would make things a lot easier, and clearer ... right now, people have to download two separate fan patches (Co8 & moebius) and install them in the right order.

[zhuge]

Would be nice to have it in 1 package I suppose but I would prefer to have some extra stuff in an update. Still it's a sound idea so if you want to go ahead with it, that's fine with me. Problem is I'm not proficient with installer software and I'm afraid I might mess things up when substituting the old temple.dll with the new one plus other files.
Another issue is that the site is down and we have currently no proper place though the download section seem to still work though if you access it directly. You might want to mail Exitium or Ausir about this to see if anything can be restored.

Come to think of it actually there's been quite a bit of backlog on work which was planned to go into v3.0.4 but didn't make it. If you're willing to put in some work, I could show you the relevant threads. It's basically done, but just needs to be coded in... meticulously... I should add.

[Morpheus]

I have a lot of spare time right now and could try build a new patch. Can you point me to the relevant threads? I think Nomad_Wanderer tried to put some kind of version control system in place, maybe I should contact him first (he might also be able to help me with the installer stuff). As for being meticulous, that goes without saying.

Anyway, I have started sifting through the Co8 files because I still intend to do a German localized version. I'll probably have more than a few questions (lots of more or less undocumented changes in there).

[zhuge]

Well I think for starters it would be nice to get some new items in.
See: http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=979

Would be nice to get the Attack of Opportunity bug with crossbows fixed as well if we could change range increment to its proper values. The bug needs to be confirmed though. Might as well restore all correct range increment values while we're doing it.
See: http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1232

The old list of proported changes is here of course. Not everything made it though. Your dialogue fix, toejam's NPC levelup fix, my puzzle mod and a few minor item fixes were added to v3.0.4. The rest are still hanging in limbo though.
See: http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1002

Could you run a quick check and make a comparison with the fixlist here: http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1115
Spugnoir shouldn't have those extra crafting feats. I hope we can check this and get it rectified if we haven't done it yet.

Thanks for the offer. I'll try to help when I can. Just very busy with RL nowadays. Sorry. Still it's good to have new people handling the mod pack. With different buildmasters and a different pair of eyes, it's easier sometimes to catch problems, earlier modders might have missed.
Cheers.

[Morpheus]

Okay, I'll ...

1. try to add the new items in protos.tab (how do we make them available in the game though? through dialogue maybe?)

2. try to confirm the Attack of Opportunity bug concerning crossbows and change the range increment value if necessary (also need to check values for other weapons)

3. sift through the stuff that hasn't gone into 3.04

4. check if Spugnoir has those extra feats or not

Would be nice, too, if we could get some of those kids back in ... maybe we could add a new quest ("Find the lost kids of Hommlet!").

[zhuge]

The craftable items will be made available through the respective Craft feats. So we'll need to change item_creation.mes as well. Don't worry, once the stuff is coded in protos.tab, adding the appropriate entries to item_creation.mes shouldn't be too time consuming. Admittedly I have a few reservations about it, seeing as Craft is already overpowered but they do conform to 3.5e rules.
I was wondering whether we could in later versions incorporate a time script to advance time to limit crafting. There is after all a time script to get random encounters, to trigger Thrommel's reward etc... but it may not be working perfectly

The non-craftable items can be made available through a vendor or through a chest item (if we can manage these). If we can't then dialogue is the easiest way to do it.

I wanted to do a Elven Ranger type character from the nearby Gnarley Forest who perhaps would be in Emridy Meadows doing patrols or on a quest of his own (it will need a spawn script though). He could double as a vendor for the composite bows from Shiftyjim's list and perhaps even get you to be involved in his quest/business.
An easy way to do it would be his comrades were slaughtered by that nasty Hill Giant in Emridy Meadows (explains presence of Elven Chain there) and alone he was unable to defeat the Giant... and so might want to enlist your help. But that's a bit too simple. I'm sure you can come up with something better.
The most important thing is to get the spawning done right and make sure it is stable. Try spawning any existing character first with the heartbeat script. If it works make a new character in description.mes and protos.tab and we're set.

Anyway, that can probably be left to a bit later or perhaps livonya would be able to set it up faster. Try tying up the other loose ends first. We'll see what can be done then.

[zhuge]

I think one way to make things easier for people to contribute is to upload protos.tab or any other modded file(s) as an attachment in this thread once a part of the coding is completed. That makes it easier if anyone wants to check for errors and also gives us a general idea of progress.

There are some other things which could be tackled like an AI mod (which would IMHO be important enough to warrant an update by itself but needs to be carefully considered). There was the problem of witches in the Tower casting Bull's Strength on party members. If we can't get rid of it, we can always change that to an offensive spell like Magic Missile. I didn't like the idea of casting Enlarge either (usually on the with herself). It serves no good offensive purpose and merely makes the witch an easier target. Would be nice to see some casters having Unholy Blight and Melf's Acid Arrow as well.

There were also some ideas restoring creature special abilities to make them more unique.
See: http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=31769
Ideas:
"... ie. Bodak in the protos.tab file does have a ('Slay Living' class_cleric 5) in thier abilities - I've yet to see them use it or maybe did not pay attention when they did.
I suppose it would not take much to add a ('Hold Person' class_wizard 3) to the Gorgon and Basilisk to get somewhat of the petrification effect type attack out of them."
Some creatures already have those abilities in protos.tab. It might be a strategy.tab issue to get them working though.

And of course just altering stats to make them more appropriate to 3.5e (like changing Galeb Duhrs resistance). There was a thread on Atari on a proper 3.5e representation of Zuggtmoy as quite a few players feel that she is too easy an end boss. I'll try to hunt for it.

Anyway I'm just throwing out stuff on what was planned and can be done without too much fuss. Don't feel overwhelmed. You don't have include everything. Just do whatever feels most comfortable first and we can slowly add on from there.

[Livonya]

I noticed you wondering how to put new items in game...

I just thought I should let you know that there is a very easy way to put new items on pre-existing monsters/chests. And you can also deleate items on pre-existing monserts/chest.

For the quest that I made where you have to bring Brother Smyth a giant's head in order to prove you are worthy of buying his master work items I needed to make sure that all the giants in the game would drop a "head" if they were killed.

To get these heads on the Hill Giants all I had to do was create a PY/PYC script for the monster, and add that to the san_dying (column 280) in the protos.

So for example for the Giants I created a new PY file called 00269hill giant and inserted 269 0 0 0 0 into the san_dying column.

I then used this PY file to place the head on the corpse when the creature is killed... note that it only does this if the quest is unsolved.

def san_dying( attachee, triggerer ):
if (game.quests[100].state == qs_accepted):
create_item_in_inventory ( 12602, attachee )
if (game.quests[100].state == qs_mentioned):
create_item_in_inventory ( 12602, attachee )
if (game.quests[100].state == qs_unknown):
create_item_in_inventory ( 12602, attachee )
return RUN_DEFAULT


By using the PY files and the san_dying you can do anything you want with a monster's/chest's inventory....

Livonya

[zhuge]

Originally Posted by Livonya

To get these heads on the Hill Giants all I had to do was create a PY/PYC script for the monster, and add that to the san_dying (column 280) in the protos.

So for example for the Giants I created a new PY file called 00269hill giant and inserted 269 0 0 0 0 into the san_dying column.

I then used this PY file to place the head on the corpse when the creature is killed... note that it only does this if the quest is unsolved.

def san_dying( attachee, triggerer ):
if (game.quests[100].state == qs_accepted):
create_item_in_inventory ( 12602, attachee )
if (game.quests[100].state == qs_mentioned):
create_item_in_inventory ( 12602, attachee )
if (game.quests[100].state == qs_unknown):
create_item_in_inventory ( 12602, attachee )
return RUN_DEFAULT


By using the PY files and the san_dying you can do anything you want with a monster's/chest's inventory....

Livonya

Nice scripting work. Thanks for the info.
I think it's probably Ok to write it this way too, in case you want to save a bit of space.

def san_dying( attachee, triggerer ):
if (game.quests[100].state != qs_completed):
create_item_in_inventory ( 12602, attachee )
return RUN_DEFAULT

[Livonya]

Ha, I forgot about !=

At first I tried >= and it didn't work, so I did each line, but yeah != is better... it just skipped my mind.

Livonya

[Gaear]

Hello all,

Livonya's recent activities sound very exciting. I'd suggest letting him go nuts with his traps/children/spawning et al (properly supervised and tested by you guys), and then release version 4 with the other elements you've discussed in this thread and any other new content you come up with. (I believe zhuge hinted at a new mod recently on the Atari boards?) Such a significant package, combined with moebius' .dll advancements, would in my view merit it's own new release number. I don't personally expect anything more from Atari/Troika.

Just a thought, feel free to ignore me.

gaear

[zhuge]

Sure. To tell the truth, I think 3.0.4 was rather a misnomer with all the incredible fixes that moebius made. It really already should have been v4.0 at that point.
But no one made any fuss about it so things just went along. I still think it's a disservice to moebius's work. Anyway now that the few bugs that were introduced in the earlier versions of his temple.dll have been ironed out, v4.0 would be an apt name, especially if Livonya can complete part of his work on introducing new content.

[Livonya]

Moebius's work is awesome.

There were a few really annoying bugs left in TOEE that were preventing me from playing TOEE, but it seems to be running much better now.

His work is awesome. It is what got me back into modding TOEE.

The one thing I would like to see him do is see if he can't tinker with the hard coding for searching for secret doors.

Currently it is just stupid how easy it is to find secret doors. I tried to find a way to fix it but it is definitely hard coded.

But I guess that is kind of minor.

Anyway, I am definitely working on a traps mod.

Here is what I have so far:

1) No experience gain for setting off traps.

Currently TOEE rewards more exp for setting off traps than for disarming them. Duh. I can't stop the engine from giving exp for setting off traps, but I can take away the experience.

In my version you will get no experience for setting off traps and in some instances you will actually lose experience for being clumsy. I don't want to offset the balance of TOEE by giving out extra exp, so my traps will actually take away exp so that the end result is more combat and more threats to survivial without making the game easier by providing more experience earlier in the game.

This part is 90% done.


2) Increasing search requirement's for traps.

Searching for traps was stupid easy. Many traps had a search qualifyer of 21, but since the engine takes 20 for the search dice roll this is just silly. I am upping the search requirements to make them hard to find.

This part is 100% done.


3) I am going to add at least 25 new traps. Many of which will have random effects.

This part is easy to do, but just takes some time... especially on the more creative traps... I will do at least one trap that involves some new encounters with more complex dialogs and such... but we will see.

I have already added a trap to the rainbow rock. When you set it off it spawns an undead ambush, but there is a small chance it will do something much worse! I won't spoil it.


4) I will give the traps a bit more meat. Currently they don't really do enough to worry about them... but with a little work setting off traps will be highly annoying... he he he.

Anyway, that's what I am up to at the moment...

Livonya

[zhuge]

Great stuff. Could you post a little regarding the existing code for the completed files.
Perhaps you could also upload an updated file as an attachment (I assume increasing search requirement's for traps was done by modifying a protos.tab field). Once you think a certain part of coding is complete, uploading it makes it easier for others who are interested to work on the same file.

Crichton may want to add some spellcaster templates for ambushes. I think it's a nice idea. Too many melee combatants gets boring after awhile. We could have skeleton mages to start with. Apart from protos.tab, we'll have to put in some extra entries in description.mes and strategy.tab. We can reuse old graphics.

[Kalshane]

One thing about the traps, I would recommend against moving away from the 3.5 rules. Traps are given a CR (challenge rating) just like monsters and XP is awarded for surviving the encounter whether you disable the trap or set it off. (The additional reward for disabling it is not taking damage/dying). While I agree that traps should definitely not give more XP for triggering them than disabling them, and can even see that arguement of giving no XP for triggering them (as was the case in previous editions of D&D), taking away already earned XP for setting off a trap not only completely deviates from the 3.5 rules, but also adds insult to injury. "Whoops, sorry your rogue botched his disable device roll and died, but everyone that lives loses 100xp too." seems rather extreme.

[Livonya]

Kalshane -

(EDIT: actually, I just thought of something else, I could make it so only the characters that are un-damaged by a trap get experience. Right now the whole party gets experience even if only 0 members are hurt, but that could be changed.)

The problem is that if you fail to disable a trap then you get more experience than when you disable it.

In addition you can simply level up your characters by making botched attempts at disabling the traps.

The trap doesn't go away, you get experience... you heal up, and try it again.

It irks me that you are actually better off setting off traps then attempting to disarm them. Most of the traps aren't lethal, so the worse thing you can currently do is disarm them. I want rogues to be an asset not a hinderance...

In any event I will post all the code soon and I will show you how to set it to do anything you want... as in leave exp gain as is, reduce it 100% when set off, or reduce it 50% or whatever you want... it is really simple to do.

Tomorrow I should be able to post pretty much everything in a semi-finished state...

Livonya

[Kalshane]

Ah. I wasn't aware the game awarded XP multiple times for the same trap. By the 3.5 rules it should do it once, whether disarmed or tripped and that's it, regardless of how many times it is tripped and it should be the same amount.

I have no programming skills whatsoever. Show me all the code you like, best you'll get out of me is a "huh?". (I mean, I can do some monkey work if given specific instructions. For instance, I've been able to make changes to my temple.dll and protos.tab using editors and instructions I've found here. But I wouldn't have a clue how to implement any changes of my own design.) I appreciate and am amazed at all the work the people here have done. I just like to put my two cents in whenever something related to the ruleset comes up, as the appeal of ToEE to me was how closely it adheared to the 3.5 rules and I like seeing that trend continue in the modding.

[Nomad_Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

I have a lot of spare time right now and could try build a new patch. Can you point me to the relevant threads? I think Nomad_Wanderer tried to put some kind of version control system in place, maybe I should contact him first (he might also be able to help me with the installer stuff). As for being meticulous, that goes without saying.

Isn't it strange.. you get the feeling that you should swing by the Co8 boards, and there's Moebius and Zhuuge talking about a resurgence.


Yes. I still have 3.0.4 up on my personal web space. Yes, it is in a RCS. (revision control system). However, it can't see binaries.. The DLL changes have always been blind to it. Document What you did in Binaries well IOW...

Somone mailed me a more complex install script but I never got around to looking into it. Our is VERY basic. I wouldn't mind letting someone else having a go at it if they want something more complex.

Currently ours backs up the files we are going to change into another directory. Then installs our files.

It would be nice if I understood how to use an uninstaller script to copy the backups back into the regular dir.. but was never that motivated.

Anyway. The RCS I'm using is free for a single user, so I can't turn on Internet connectivity to it without paying.. (Something I don't want to do). I don't have a problem taking whatever files you feel are in a checkinable state and checking them in, and building a mod. Using emailed Zips as the protocol.

I would like to get any future releases out of my personal webspace though.
(I only have 5 megs

BTW, anyone know of a free tga->bmp/jpg converter? (that doesn't run out after X days?)

Good to see both of you, and the rest of the community here still involved.

[Morpheus]

Welcome back, Nomad. I'm currently still working on getting all those new 3.5 items into the game (and testing if they work). The Cape of the Mountebank is nice ... When I have files to check in, I'll upload them to the forum or send 'em to you via email (if they're too big to post here).

Concerning your converter question: Have you tried IrfanView? It's totally free and can convert virtually any graphics file format into another one. Also has a nifty batch converting feature.

P.S.: I'm MORPHEUS, not Moebius.

[Gaear]

. . . since you guys seem to have figured it out. Why not add stagnate Hommlett villagers to certain areas on the map? . . . for example a group of 3 standing in front of the Welcome Wench, a couple in front of the temple, and so on. As it is, the only people who appear outside are Elmo, Burne's Badgers, and the labor camp people. Kind of makes it seem like the town's under lockdown. Adult villagers, as opposed to children, would be more likely to stand there than walk/run around aimlessly, I would think. Adding them would in my view add to game immersion and would be a good combo with the running children. Doesn't sound like it would be complicated either. You could even add the little "what is it?" (non) dialogue response to them when clicked on to make them a bit more lifelike.

Kalshane, rules gurus are invaluable, so keep up the input I say.

[Nomad_Wanderer]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

Welcome back, Nomad. I'm currently still working on getting all those new 3.5 items into the game (and testing if they work). The Cape of the Mountebank is nice ... When I have files to check in, I'll upload them to the forum or send 'em to you via email (if they're too big to post here).

P.S.: I'm MORPHEUS, not Moebius.

heh. Too close of a name. I got mixed up.

Sounds like a good idea.

[zhuge]

How's the status so far for the changes. Can we at least state the files which have already been modded?
I expect to be busy throughout this week or so but will have a holiday break around 9th February. Hope to be able to get some things coded in by then.

[Morpheus]

The new items will probably be in by then, so I could pass the relevant files on to you and/or Nomad_Wanderer.

Of course, just when I was getting started on protos.tab, a new project arrived (I'm working as a freelance translator) ... So my spare time is somewhat limited now. But as I said, you should see some results by the 9th.

Seems like we should dedicate our next patch to all those guys at Troika that have just been laid off ... I wonder about Steve's fate.

[Livonya]

Hmmm...

I know I said I was going to post some stuff... but I got sided tracked.

It turns out, and this is just freaking silly.

No matter what the CR of a trap the most exp you can get for disarming a trap is 105 points total... you can get 2,000 points for just opening the damn trap and taking the punishment, but if you open it 105... level 1 trap 105 points, level 7 trap, 105 points.... MAKES ME WANT TO PULL OUT MY HAIR!!!

I am trying to find a solution for this as I find this just silly as all hell.

At this point I have 4 new traps in the game and have added 2 quests and fixed a few dialogue errors. A few of the traps I have added are traps that were never actually used, as far as I can tell new animations as well.

Okay back to the hunt...

Livonya

[Nomad_Wanderer]

Originally Posted by zhuge

How's the status so far for the changes. Can we at least state the files which have already been modded?
I expect to be busy throughout this week or so but will have a holiday break around 9th February. Hope to be able to get some things coded in by then.

I do have the 3.0.4 in a code control system. Any files you post here, I'll check into the codebase and deploy.

The issue is what do we want to put into a release. How much or how little.

I look to you guys for that. I'll just check in the files, and deploy it. The revision system will allow us to back out files to previous states, in a relatively painless manner.

[Longarms]

Is this thread for suggestions for the 3.0.5 co8 patch?

I have two suggestions... the first is really easy (I think!)


1. Add the maximum amount of sling bullets possible to the inventory of a few of the shops. Slings are pretty good weapons because they add STR bonus to damage rolls unlike bows...

2. Fix magic stone so that it creates bonus sling bullets in your inventory. That way "magic stone" can be slinged. Slings are awesome in the right hands, this could make a druid really powerful.

[Morpheus]

STATUS UPDATE:

- integrated latest fixes by moebius2778 into the Co8 mod pack
- added Shiftyjim's items (and Goongyae's Cape of the Mountebank)
- light/heavy crossbow & longbow range modified (however, this doesn't seem to fix the bug where skeletons wielding crossbows get Attacks of Opportunity)
- added zhuge's sickle (needs new icon, forum link is corrupt)
- shuriken/masterwork shuriken modified (according to suggestions by Pebz & zhuge)
- wand of fear: number of charges fixed (was 2, is now 20) *
- Bracers of armor +5 now non-lootable by NPCs *
- Spugnoir's extra crafting feats (introduced by 3.0 mod pack) removed *
- Serena got a "half_share_money_only" flag (how do I make her stop looting completely?)
- Masterwork Maul weapon type changed from greatclub to warhammer *
- various GUI typos fixed (e.g. Craft Wonderous Items -> Craft Wondrous Items)
- all wands now have a OIF_NO_NPC_PICKUP flag *
- figured out how to spawn creatures in the Arena map

* these should already have been in Co8 3.04, according to the readme (???)

TO DO:
- add brewable potions by Pebz (forum link is broken)
- adjust Ghaleb Dur properties
- fix wrong blue villager garb texture for male humans (need Beaujim's texture fix, forum link is corrupt)
- create a quest involving the Arena (any suggestions?)

[nitewolf]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

- figured out how to spawn creatures in the Arena map

Morpheus, you da man...can you let me know how you spawn creatures. I've been adjusting the random encounters to make sleeping more dangerous, but I can't figure out how to have a baddie appear from nowhere. I'd like to test my PC's against 2 of 3 balors or something as stupid as that...

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by nitewolf

Morpheus, you da man...can you let me know how you spawn creatures. I've been adjusting the random encounters to make sleeping more dangerous, but I can't figure out how to have a baddie appear from nowhere. I'd like to test my PC's against 2 of 3 balors or something as stupid as that...

Thanks, but my scripting skills are very limited. Livonya's mod is much more complex and impressive. Here's an early version of my Arena mod, by the way: http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1293

If you absolutely want to test your party against a group of balors, you could edit the file py00922master_of_the_arena.py (Temple of Elemental Evil\data\scr) with notepad. Look for the script that starts with "def spawn_owlbears( attachee, triggerer ):" and replace proto ID 14579 with 14358.

[Livonya]

Last night I managed to fix the problem with Skeletons getting Attacks of Opportunity while using crossbows.

There are two ways to fix this, I went with a slightly more complex version... but it is nicer than the simple fix.

My fix removes Attacks of Opportunity for skeletons with crossbows but also improves their AI so that they will take 5 foot steps before firing so they avoid getting hit by Attacks of Opportunity. I also modified the code a bit so 50% of the time when a skeleton appears with a spear they might actually get a long spear, and in this case they also take 5 foot steps so that they can take advantage of their reach attacks. This adds some nice variety.

It works really well. And I don't think there are any problems, but it will need some testing of course.

Also, after doing this I believe I can fix the problem with gnolls getting damage resistance... but I need to play around with that first.

As for the simple fix for skeletons getting Attacks of Opportunity when using crossbows...

The problem was not the crossbows but the skeletons. The skeletons also have natural attacks. If you remove their natural attack then you remove their ability to take Attacks of Opportunity with crossbows (and any other range weapon that should not get an Attack of Opportunity). However, the downside in that case is that the skeleton no longer has any attack when unarmed.

I think the more complex fix is nicer as it leaves the skeletons with natural attacks, which they should have, and it also vastly improves the AI for the skeletons when they are using crossbows.

Anyway, I will post all the code for my complex fix soon. Probably tonight.

Livonya