Circle of Eight Modpack 5.9.x/5.9.xNC General Commentary & Discussion Thread

[Gaear]

Originally Posted by cezmail

New topic that may just be my bad memory. Once you heal Bing and he is able to craft master work items, did he not use to make a masterwork sling along with some of the armors in past modules? For now the only masterwork sling I can seem to acquire is at the ambush in Nulb.I believe you can get on in Verbobanc, but otherwise I find just the one. Like I said, it may just be my faulty memory.

Bing does sell a masterwork sling. If you don't see it, it's because it has an 80% chance of being there.

[mmonagle]

Originally Posted by mmonagle

I encountered a red cloaked person running out of the room I had purchased at Jylee's Inn. He disappeared so quickly however that I was unable to do anything.

The same thing has now happened to me in the top level of the castle in VB. (just reporting in that it triggers).

I have finally set off the alarm in temple. The air temple and water temple have collected their troops and it looks like it will be a fun set of battles. Nice touch to move their chests in with them. I am curious though, the fire temple has not done the same (I have already wiped out the earth temple). I took the first two quests from the fire temple priest - would this be why they are not being defensive? Since my party is NG I killed the troll and thus botched the first quest. Then I went and killed the ogres in the cave but I don't have the option to report this and thus botch it. So the quest is still accepted.

Also, I found another bug:

21) the air temple has a room that is filled with goblins, bugbears, and gnolls (the only one with all three in one). Most of their troops have set up with the others now that the alarm has been set off but there are still two goblins and one female bugbear who have remained behind in this room. They do nothing when I enter. In fact the goblins will say pleasant things when I try to talk to them like 'Do you need help with something' and 'good day'.

[Sitra Achara]

You are correct about the Fire Temple not regrouping due to you taking the quests.

As for the Air Temple, they had some leftovers in the kitchen

I suppose they could use specialized dialogue lines.

[mmonagle]

I loved the two alarm battles that I had against air and water. Would it be possible to have the alarm override the quest thing with the fire temple? I only take the fire temple quests so I can access the ogre cave and clean them out. That's why I intentionally botch the first quest - so I don't earn the reputation of being a member of the fire temple. I wouldn't mind being able to botch the second either (since I'm NG). I actually talked to the ogre chief in the cave and went with the choice of - I don't have time for this [attack] in the hope that it would let me talk to Alrrem and botch it as well. I just don't want to become an associate of evil with a good aligned group.

Or is there a different way to gain access the ogre cave?

[cezmail]

Originally Posted by Gaear

Bing does sell a masterwork sling. If you don't see it, it's because it has an 80% chance of being there.

Umm, that is interesting, as I have repeatedly gone back to Jakk and Bing and it has never shown up. Maybe just my bad luck with the rolls of the electronic dice. Thanks for the reply Gaear.

[cezmail]

All the new changes coming to 5.91 look Great and I eagerly await the time I can give it a new play through. Looks like it will be tougher and more fun at same time for a group of wanna be heros going after treasure and glory.

I also look forward in future releases as Verbobanc is fleshed out and made to be fully interactive as Homlett.

Thanks again for all the hard work Mod Team.

[Oshikai]

I feel like I'm missing something obvious on the slavers quest.

We're told that there somewheres in the gnarley forest or the kron hills. Is it some kind of random encounter?

I can't find them in any of the locations I have there and I can't think of any npc's to ask about it.

Oh btw, in case it's not been mentioned theres a lone clone of Wilfrik in Welkwood if you've backstabbed the brotherhood and stopped the assassination.

And since you asked, the tavernkeepers wife DID, to my annoyance, complain about the fracas. Demanded 150G which I didn't mind too much though. As for wealth, sitting on 600kG but I haven't spent any money really.

I'll try the killing of Wilfrik for a lark in the meantime.

[Oshikai]

Well that quick.

Went and got me the constable killer and scarlet assassin reps.

If I had one crit about the battle it's that the viscount and his guard are really, REALLY dumb.

Bunching together like that with a rocky barrier between them and me meant my sorceress could fire spells at them with impunity.

I guess thats what their rings of fire resistance are for? Pity she was throwing out cone of cold and prismatic spray. Battle was a doddle all said, which was a little anti-climactic tbh.

I also murdered the assassins in the welkwood bog on the second go at it as well. Have to justify that chaotic alignment somehow...

The bonk constabulary DID attack me on my return. And then promptly forgot I was public enemy number one. Brotherhood leaders said their bits and my party was able to figure out who the leader was (no duh guys...). Dosen't seem to be any more than that though?

[mmonagle]

I'm downloading 5.9.1 NC from Moddb right now! I can't wait to try it out!

[Ank]

About Scarlet brotherhood quests......
Turns out i was taking the right aproach to solve 'a framework for a murder' quest its just that i needed to use 'power word reload' until i realised a patrol man needs to go down in an atak done by a single person on him (has to die from it) and it needs to have first shot (doesen't work if u tag team' the guard eaven if he dies before his turn arives)
Removing wilfrik... as some one already mentioned the box formation those guys do is utterly useless (kept my distance and solved the battle without taking a single hp dmg), despite darlia's statement that no one will hear what happens in the bog they did they arest me as soon as i reached the city (alowed myself to get jailed; funny fact : my atorny came and informed me about the upcoming execution in the city square (my partie's execution if there are any doubts :-)) ) I then teleported out of jail ... got politely greated by the city guards ... had a relaxed stroll all the way to 'jezebel's maroon moon briefed darlia about my succes' got congrats from him and a thanks from the adviser; Only reputation i have for doing these 2 quests: Scarlet asasin' reputation ... (no constable kiler rep wich hapens after nailing 2+ guards ?? if i understood corectly....)

[GuardianAngel82]

Is there any way to remove the old versions, like 5.8.0. 5.8.1NC, etc.?

[Gaear]

Originally Posted by Ank

About Scarlet brotherhood quests......
Turns out i was taking the right aproach to solve 'a framework for a murder' quest its just that i needed to use 'power word reload' until i realised a patrol man needs to go down in an atak done by a single person on him (has to die from it) and it needs to have first shot (doesen't work if u tag team' the guard eaven if he dies before his turn arives)

Ank, you're rigidly thinking inside the box ...

Like I was preaching about above, we don't assume you will reload until you get something just right; we assume you will play as though there are no such things as reloads. If that were the case, what would you do if you botched the job the first time? (I'm assuming that's what's happening - other guards appear?)

As to the specifics, it's simply that the job will be done 'right' if you kill the guard before his second turn, nothing more.

Originally Posted by Ank

despite darlia's statement that no one will hear what happens in the bog they did they arest me as soon as i reached the city

That's because you've killed more than 1 guard in Verbobonc and have the 'killer' rep, not because of anything that happened at Welkwood Bog.

Originally Posted by Ank

my atorny came and informed me about the upcoming execution in the city square ... I then teleported out of jail

You can only do that before you talk to your attorney ... is more power word: reload being used here?

Originally Posted by Ank

got politely greated by the city guards ...

Old story, fixed in 5.9.1.

Originally Posted by Ank

Removing wilfrik... as some one already mentioned the box formation those guys do is utterly useless (kept my distance and solved the battle without taking a single hp dmg),

Did their casters cast? Assuming that they can keep up with the healing and cause you some damage in the meantime, the strategy will hopefully result in a sort of fight-to-a-standstill type thing. What sort of ranged attacks were you using on them - how many casters, archers, what levels, how many spells available altogether, etc.? Any cheats or exploits or reloads involved? Ideally, they should be able to sort of outlast you.

Also, did they break ranks eventually?

Originally Posted by Oshikai

Bunching together like that with a rocky barrier between them and me meant my sorceress could fire spells at them with impunity.

Similarly, what level was the sorceress and how many spells did she have? Unless everybody's constantly failing their saves and she's got like 30 AoE spells, it still seems to me that the healers should be able to keep up or at least give it a good try.

[Gaear]

Originally Posted by GA82

Is there any way to remove the old versions, like 5.8.0. 5.8.1NC, etc.?

Do you mean remove them from your game installation? If so, yes - just navigate to your ToEE root directory and delete whichever named .tfm ('Circle of Eight Modpack 5.8.1 NC BETA.tfm' or whatever) file you want to get rid of. You should also probably delete the corresponding text and jpeg files too. After you do that, they won't show up in the TFE-X menu anymore.

[Oshikai]

Originally Posted by Gaear

Similarly, what level was the sorceress...

I used ONLY the sorceress who was level 16 for about 4 or 5 turns on the second attempt. I was a bit nicer on the first and closed the distance for them thinking they were gonna pull the proverbial rabbit out of their hat. The formation didn't break up at all unless they were confused generally they just stood in their positions. Also Wilfrik is dead on the first or second spell, everyone else seems to outlive him.

If everyone was the level 12 with which I arrived at verbonc I'd STILL have cone of cold I believe and the area effect spells of my cleric, summons of my druid and pimp slap spells of my bard.

Problem is that the soldiers are never going to close the distance with that barrier and the mages and clerics are gonna get fried standing so close together. The bonk constabulary are at least capable but they aren't even given a chance. Imo move them in FRONT of the barrier in a V formation with their back to the natural defense and widen the density of the formation. PERHAPS put the wizards and clerics with a couple of soldiers BEHIND the formation safe from the partys fighters. They have afterall routed the brotherhood in the opposite direction so it's not like they are leaving their rear thoughtlessly unguarded. Finally some defensive spells cast on Wilfrik himself and some buffs on as many of the guard as possible. One last possibillity to increase the nastiness of the spellcasters without boosting levels or whatever would be to give them 'used' wands with only 1 or 2 charges left with the excuse that they've used most of the charges seeing off the brotherhood. Even if the player recovers these the 1 charge left isn't going to help that much.

That should make the battle at least a little tricky. I KNOW that if the guard were able to disrupt my own formation things would have been quite tricky, even at level 16.

[Ank]

Don't know maybe i have a crooked instalation
i'm sure that was the only guard i have ever kiled in Vb city or in any town for that matter kiling guards its plain retarded others will always gladly replace them ....
Also i'm sure again that i was taken to jail becose of murdering wilfrick for no other reason then the guard teling me exactly that (tho i did kill 2 wilfricks in the bog ; maybe that could be the reason ?!!)
About my attorney: upon aresting me the guard told me i'm to avait the arival of my atorney, screen went blank(black like when u chose the sleep tent) i woke up in jail stood there like 2-3 secs and then a gent slowly made his way to my cell and informed me that for my crimes i'm gona be executed in the city square
Ps: the guard i kiled and planted the dager on was in the living quarters wich is totaly deserted i actualy had to walk another 2-3 streets to encounter a new guard (weird enough it took 3 reloades and in all 3 i kiled him with-out him eaven getting a turn , on third load a dual wielder kiled him in one salve without any help from the rest of the party and as such i assumed it must by done by a single person in a single combat turn )
About the box formation : 2 cone of cold form 2 sork 16lvl and ligthning storm from druid on center instantly dispatched cleriks of pelor and wizards, the rest was not worth mentioning (maybe saying all my party has improved initiative and most have sneek ataks.. and some have pole arms can clear up the mystery as to how come i have taken 0 dmg in that battle)
Seeing what u wrote Gaear i'm rather certain some of my files got corupted there is no other thing i can think of , well 5.9.1 is out so i'm gona go at it again to see if what i experienced reoccurs (thks for the feed back at least i know what is normaly suposed to happed and can now easly spot abnormalities )

[GuardianAngel82]

Originally Posted by Gaear

Do you mean remove them from your game installation? If so, yes - just navigate to your ToEE root directory and delete whichever named .tfm ('Circle of Eight Modpack 5.8.1 NC BETA.tfm' or whatever) file you want to get rid of. You should also probably delete the corresponding text and jpeg files too. After you do that, they won't show up in the TFE-X menu anymore.

Thanks. That answers my questions. Delete .tfm and associated.

[cezmail]

Not sure if it may just be my install, but I downloaded the new 5.91 and started a new game. I have a Dwarf Sorcerer and I have his read magic set on a hot key. Well it seems like he has a helm of read magic as he never runs out of 0 level spells.

Anyone else ever had this come up either in this version of the game or a past module?

[cezmail]

Some further playing with 5.91 and I have yet to see Armarlo or Calmert renew their inventories. I even tried to rest for 30 days 6 different times and at none of those checks did they have anything new. Armarlo keeps saying he is finishing a new batch and will soon have some new stuff, but nada. Not sure if I may have a bugged install. though I had used this install with 5.5 through 5.8 and had no troubles with him renewing his arrows and bows.

Anyone else encountering this in the 5.91?

[General Ghoul]

Originally Posted by cezmail

Some further playing with 5.91 and I have yet to see Armarlo or Calmert renew their inventories. I even tried to rest for 30 days 6 different times and at none of those checks did they have anything new. Armarlo keeps saying he is finishing a new batch and will soon have some new stuff, but nada. Not sure if I may have a bugged install. though I had used this install with 5.5 through 5.8 and had no troubles with him renewing his arrows and bows.

Anyone else encountering this in the 5.91?

Did you go elsewhere via the world map? Seems like they want you to leave town and then come back.

[cezmail]

Originally Posted by General Ghoul

Did you go elsewhere via the world map? Seems like they want you to leave town and then come back.

Yes I have. Went to several other maps, in and out of buildings and waited several days and still no dice on the shop inventory renewal.

[cezmail]

Originally Posted by cezmail

Not sure if it may just be my install, but I downloaded the new 5.91 and started a new game. I have a Dwarf Sorcerer and I have his read magic set on a hot key. Well it seems like he has a helm of read magic as he never runs out of 0 level spells.

Anyone else ever had this come up either in this version of the game or a past module?

Just a follow up on this, that after gaining two more levels, my sorcerer is no long the endless wonder with read magic. Not sure what happened, but he now casts his 0 level spells at the limits set by level.

[Ank]

@cezmail
don't know about that spell, but in 5.9.0 i was able to use a 'teleport' with 0 charges' left and it didn't caused any aparent bug , tho i did a reload just to be on the safe side (unpredictable future CTD's are not on my crismass list, plus if it can be done it doesn't mean it should be done... its cheating ...... good thing i saw yr post and it reminded me about my teleport incident' )
Speaking of CTD's every time (on 3 difrent ocasions ) i try to use chain lightning on a massive number of units like 15+ the game has an instant crash an my windows gives me the traditional 'there goes all yr unsaved work down the drain' :-)

[Gaear]

Okay, I had a look at the Wilfrick/Welkwood Bog battle with a 16th level sorcerer with Cone of Cold spells and a 16th level druid with Call Lightning Storm, and they indeed go down easily. That's a shame, because that was probably the battle I had the most fun testing (with something less than a 16th level party, obviously). I think if you were lower level you would find the battle rather unique and interesting, and you wouldn't think the box tactics were stupid combined with the healing support and offensive spells from the clerics and wizards respectively, inside the box. I'll have to have a think about this, because I really don't want to go down that give-em-all-rings-of-resist-everything road, because that gets cheesy. I'm almost tempted to just transform it into a lower level (for the party) encounter. We'll see.

Originally Posted by Oshikai

Problem is that the soldiers are never going to close the distance with that barrier

The idea is to keep you from closing the distance, or at least make you work at it. They are obviously approaching it defensively, unlike basically every other battle in ToEE.

Originally Posted by Oshikai

the mages and clerics are gonna get fried standing so close together.

Everyone is close together so the healling will be readily at hand, and so that they can take advantage of the impenetrable box. Basically, if you didn't have AoE spells that can easily overcome them (or other insta-death spells that I'm sure would work as well, although you'd need a lot of those), the whole thing would be an entirely different story.

Originally Posted by Oshikai

Imo move them in FRONT of the barrier in a V formation with their back to the natural defense and widen the density of the formation.

All that would serve to do is completely nullify their tactics, as the barrier would restrict their movement (when the time comes to move), and offer protection on only one flank instead of four. Spreading out the formation would allow free access into the spellcaster area, so say goodnight healers and bombardiers. They need to be tightly grouped in order to keep you out (that's just an engine thing), which is what their entire strategy hinges on.

Originally Posted by Oshikai

PERHAPS put the wizards and clerics with a couple of soldiers BEHIND the formation safe from the partys fighters.

If they were back there alone, they would be safe from melee attacks only as long as it took you to send somebody up there. Inside the box, they are completely safe from melee attacks, no matter what you do (although it's possible you might get a polearm in there, never tried that), for as long as the box's integrity is maintained.

Originally Posted by Oshikai

Finally some defensive spells cast on Wilfrik himself and some buffs on as many of the guard as possible.

Meh, the casters already buff, and they've already got lesser or greater fire resistance rings. The buff game can be like the ring game after a while.

Originally Posted by Oshikai

One last possibillity to increase the nastiness of the spellcasters without boosting levels or whatever would be to give them 'used' wands with only 1 or 2 charges left with the excuse that they've used most of the charges seeing off the brotherhood.

The wizards aren't short on offensive spells as is.

[cezmail]

Originally Posted by Ank

@cezmail
don't know about that spell, but in 5.9.0 i was able to use a 'teleport' with 0 charges' left and it didn't caused any aparent bug , tho i did a reload just to be on the safe side (unpredictable future CTD's are not on my crismass list, plus if it can be done it doesn't mean it should be done... its cheating ...... good thing i saw yr post and it reminded me about my teleport incident' )

Thanks Ank for the heads up on your own experience. I agree that just because you can get away with something is not a reason to abuse it or use it to cheat. As you may have read above, my own quirk did go away after some level gains.

[Gaear]

Originally Posted by cezmail

Some further playing with 5.91 and I have yet to see Armarlo or Calmert renew their inventories. I even tried to rest for 30 days 6 different times and at none of those checks did they have anything new. Armarlo keeps saying he is finishing a new batch and will soon have some new stuff, but nada. Not sure if I may have a bugged install. though I had used this install with 5.5 through 5.8 and had no troubles with him renewing his arrows and bows.

Regarding Armario, are you talking about him refreshing his regular inventory or switching to his masterwork inventory?

I looked at the masterwork routine and I see that it's broken ... the thing is, it's been broken since 5.6, so I hope you were talking about regular inventory when you said it worked before.

Although, I thought somebody just got done saying he didn't refresh his inventory.

[cezmail]

Originally Posted by Gaear

Regarding Armario, are you talking about him refreshing his regular inventory or switching to his masterwork inventory?

I looked at the masterwork routine and I see that it's broken ... the thing is, it's been broken since 5.6, so I hope you were talking about regular inventory when you said it worked before.

Although, I thought somebody just got done saying he didn't refresh his inventory.

Sorry, should have been clearer, I did mean his masterwork inventory. I may have had the 5.5 play through mixed up with the 5.8 when I was able to get lots of arrows for my bow specialists. :D They sure use up those arrows when you are not careful with full attacks.

Thanks Gaear for checking and confirming it was not just me with the non renewing of the inventory for Armario. I can live with that for now, just means more trips to Brother Smythe.

[cezmail]

Not a real bug but when I am resting at the Wenching Inn upstairs, phantoms of Jedi the Jackal seem to heal 1 hit point at a time. Now there are no bodies there, as Jedi has been dismissed each time , but a remnant seems to linger in the room.

[Necroticpus]

Playing 5.9.1 right now. I'm about to hit HB. I've seen 2 issues that I got playing 5.9.0 again and a brand new issue.

First, the sound thing. Disabling intro movies didn't remove it. I don't know what's causing it but it is weird. It eventually goes away on it's own after a while. Very odd.

Second, I got the brother smythe blooper again. It happens because you have one or more of those special items from Rannos and Gremag. The first time in 5.9.0, I had all of the special items in my inventory. This time in 5.9.1 it happened and I only had the merchant's scale in my inventory. Screenshot below. BTW, what the hell does that thing do anyways? It doesn't have a shift click. Does it add 4 to the appraise skill or something? I tried equipping it but you can't equip it.

Lastly, the moathouse respawn. I was very saddened, shocked, frightened, confused and hurt that the groaning spirit, bodaks and shadows were removed from the bugbear den. That was an excellent encounter, the best of the whole moathouse respawn! No amount of skeleton gnolls can ever replace it! Please, please bring it back! But leave the extra skeleton gnolls in there. Maybe add a few hill giant skeletons.

[wizgeorge]

ChainLightning and the wand will do a max of 12. Anything more and CTD.

[Ank]

Thanks wizgeorge good to know
on this 5.9.1 round i think i'm gonna pay extra attention to spell cast testing and map out any bugy misshaps' just so i ensure i don't get the s*** anymore (so far may list has 3 : 12+chain lightning CTD, functional 0 charge' teleport and acid fog permancy(with the added bonus of a perverse constant speed decrease on those hit by it)).
Humm i wonder if this topic shoudn't have a thread of it's own called smth like: magical failiure/ the dark tome of rampant magic ; and it ought to contain all knowledge of magic related misshaps' so it can easly be put on the 'to fix list'/ 'unfixable but avoidable list'