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Old October 14th, 2008   #1
Gaear
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The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

What does the future hold at Co8 with the arrival of TFE-X?

Soon, very soon, a new Co8 modpack is going to be released. Not just a CMF update, but an entirely new modpack. It shall be called Circle of Eight Modpack v5.5.0, and it shall contain the entire volume of contents from Co8 5.0.0 and all the CMF updates through the latest build of 5.0.6 and any additional mods that appear in the very near future (can you say Hickory Branch 2.0? ).

This modpack will arrive in a format ready to be deployed by the new front end engine, TFE-X. In fact, it will arrive prepackaged with TFE-X.

What does it all mean?

It means that for a while anyway (until the next CMF update), you will have a fully patched and operational mod that is automatically game ready and does not require and user patching, not to mention any of the bizarre maneuvers that became necessary to get the CMF going with the old front end. You will simply download the modpack in the form of a .rar archive, extract it to your ToEE root directory (there will be no overwriting going on or anything like that), and then run TFE-X to convert any old modules you may have installed and to deploy them without heartache, as well as to launch the new modpack.

It also means that your game will be that much more stable, because the new TFE-X engine will be handling everything. It has been shown in testing to be a very stable platform, so this should mean very few headaches for you.

When will the new modpack arrive?

Probably within a few days. We still have some issues to resolve regarding previously optional contents of the mod, and other elements that need to be integrated.

What do I do in the meantime?

You should feel free to download and run the new TFE-X independantly and use it to convert your existing modules to the new format and run your games.

If I do that, will the new modpack interfere with my old saves when it comes?

You will be required to start a new game with Co8 v5.5. However, that shouldn't stop you playing your old modules. They can all exist in peace and harmony together. The new modpack won't destroy your old saves from other modules or anything like that.

I'm convinced that the latest build of the CMF is unstable. How do I avoid using that?

In the near future we will make available TFE-X-compatable versions of Co8 v3.0.4, Co8 v4.1, Co8 v5.0.0, and maybe some other mods such as Vicks and Wedge or whatever else Allyx has in that thread. We will not be making any of the earlier v5 CMF stages of the mod avaialble independantly besides whatever the current version is. We only offer/support one version of each generation of the mod (and the support is really not much for earlier versions). Most modern support will be directed toward the very latest generation of the v5.5 mod. If you have a nagging fear that Co8 v5.5 will not play nice despite our reassurances, play an older generation mod.

What if I take that leap of faith and then v5.5 is shown to be unstable?

If there is compelling reason to believe that v5.5 is itself at fault - which will be much easier to determine with TFE-X and the new module format - then we will go back to an earlier stable version until the bugs can be worked out.

How do I learn more?

See this thread in the downloads forum for general TFE-X info.

See this thread in the ToEE forum to discuss TFE-X and ask questions.
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Old October 17th, 2008   #2
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Just a heads-up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaear
When will the new modpack arrive?

Probably within a few days.
This will not be the case, unfortunately. RL continues to intervene in unpleasant ways. Will keep you all advised.
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Old October 18th, 2008   #3
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaear View Post
Just a heads-up:


This will not be the case, unfortunately. RL continues to intervene in unpleasant ways. Will keep you all advised.
I hope all is okay.
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Old October 20th, 2008   #4
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

I think you are undertaking a fantastic project! I thank you sincerely for your great contributions!

Keep it up!
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Old October 20th, 2008   #5
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaear View Post
Just a heads-up:


This will not be the case, unfortunately. RL continues to intervene in unpleasant ways. Will keep you all advised.
Gaear,

Take you're time and deal with your RL issues. They're more important and potentially more dangerous and damaging if left alone! Your effeorts and those of the rest of the Co8 modding community are greatly appreciated and enjoyed.

I, personally, can be patient. I'm running the latest v5.0.6 mod with the additional patches with very little, if any, problems, so I can't complain.

As with the preparation of any good meal, good modding also requires time and pateince. My "PC Gaming" virtual mouth is watering with anticipation!! We're looking forward to a fulfilling and satisfying mod pack, not a Happy Meal!!
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Old October 20th, 2008   #6
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Thanks for the kind words, guys.
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Old October 20th, 2008   #7
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Don't you ever once think that all the effort you, Ted, Agetian, and the rest, put in is ever unappreciated. True, some of the newbies to the game, mods, and threads, aren't as patient or even nice when they encounter problems, but us "older" veterans respect your abilities and the time you dedicate to continually improving this games overall experience.

If I had one negative thing to say, it's that this game is taking away time from some of the other PC games I was playing!! :D
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Old October 21st, 2008   #8
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

I haven't been on the ToEE scene very long, but I think I'm too old to be considered a newbie. Anyway, good job, Gaear and company.

Hopefully I'll be able to contribute some things in the future. For now I've only played the game through twice, and I don't think I have enough knowledge of all the possibilities yet.

I'm leaning toward trying to make it possible to have sex with most of the NPCs in Hommlet and Nulb. Would that interest anyone?

I mean, it's kind of wierd that the only place in the entire game you can have sex is the whorehouse.
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Old October 21st, 2008   #9
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Well that big fat innkeeper in the Wench should have a payoff, considering how shamelessly he flirts with you
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Old October 22nd, 2008   #10
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Exactly who I was thinking of!

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Old October 22nd, 2008   #11
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Smile Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

You can use the console to create some ladies upstairs in the inn long before you get to Nulb. Works okay.
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Old October 22nd, 2008   #12
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

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Originally Posted by wizgeorge View Post
You can use the console to create some ladies upstairs in the inn long before you get to Nulb. Works okay.
Works okay for what?
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Old October 22nd, 2008   #13
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

To make a brothel upstairs in the Welcome Wench for anyone so inclined. You can have different portraits, spice up the dialouge, recruit them if you want. Lots of options for anyone that so desires. Royo portraits, some protos and .dlg editing and you can create your own brothel in Hommlett. The one in Nulb is pretty lame but the esrb rating prohibits serious mature activities. Something to do if you're bored.
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Old October 22nd, 2008   #14
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

So I could have a hooker who's also a high stat Paladin. My Chaotic Evil party would line up for that. Would you have to pay extra for her to"fall"?
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Old October 23rd, 2008   #15
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Make Jenelda a Paladin and try it. She might have a +5Holy longsword under her bed and just kill all the evil ones.
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Old October 23rd, 2008   #16
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Why Jenelda? Is she lawful good?
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Old November 16th, 2008   #17
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Update: The new modpack, Circle of Eight Modpack 5.5.0 BETA, will be upon us very soon now.

Recommendations: You should finish up your current game in preparation for the new modpack. The new modpack will require not only that you start a new game, but that you reinstall ToEE from the ground up. That's right. So wrap up your current campaigns if you're eager to see the new package. Otherwise it will be waiting for you whenever you're ready sometime down the line, but make no mistake, you will have to reinstall ToEE and start a new game when you use it.

New features: Co8 5.5.0 BETA will include all material from the original modpack, the latest CMF, and all the mods submitted since the latest CMF. It will also include:
  • Hickory Branch 2.0
  • A repopulated Hommlet, with many more children and adults running around. Most of these are generic, but this reflects the module more accurately. Hommlet is not supposed to be a ghost town.
  • Dialogue overhauls for Brother Smyth, Captain Renton, and the Woodcutter, among other things.
  • The possibility of discussing Welkwood Bog with Smyth and Renton.
  • The complete maps for Welkwood Bog. Note that there will be nothing yet going on at Welkwood Bog, despite what people may say, but you can go there anyway and look around. The complete mod will be an upcoming priority, but I thought it would be nice to let you see the maps and experience the 'ambience' ahead of time. If you so choose.
  • New outfits for some NPCs, where appropriate, to more accurately reflect their portraits. Plus, NPCs you got used to seeing in hats may not wear them anymore if they don't have them on in their portraits.
  • The new shopmap will be the starting point for everybody. You won't have the option of not installing it. If you hate the new shopmap, however, you need only step into the portal the moment you arrive there.
  • Players will start the game clothed, with no weapons or armor except for the cases that were recognized previously (bastard swords for whoever, etc.). You will not be able to change this.
  • Proper money levels for starting characters (as was the case with the old shop map).
  • It will be mandatory that you use the new front end, TFE-X. You won't have to install it separately, however; it will come with the mod along with detailed (but simple ) installation instructions. TFE-X has been shown to be exceptionally stable, and Agetian has even fixed the earlier issues with the Polish version of ToEE, so this shouldn't be an issue for anyone at all. You will not be able to play Co8 5.5.0 BETA without TFE-X.
Redacted features: The new modpack will not contain:
  • The Desperate Housewives mod. (Don't worry, this will be offered as an add-on pack that you can install at your discretion.)
  • There will be no fog of war in Hommlet and Nulb, nor any option to re-enable it.
  • You will no longer have the option to level NPCs yourself. They will be levelled by the game automatically - but it will happen intelligently now instead of foolishly like it had been in the old days. As we speak, Shiningted is working feverishly to redesign all the minutia related to this process, so it is in good hands. We considered this for quite some time, and eventually came to the conclusion that ToEE was simply not intended to offer that sort of freedom. The original intent of Troika was quite clear: they wanted a significant level of autonomy for their NPCs. While they failed at this with NPC looting and inventory management (and hence why humble NPCs will remain), they didn't do so bad with levelling, aside from the actual levelling. If NPCs can be made to level intelligently, they will retain a higher level of perceived independance and thus, ultimately, that revered concept of 'immershun' will hopefully be improved. Sorry guys, but Meleny was never, ever meant to be a barbarian. She was meant to be a foxy druid, period. (That said ... we decided we will make another add-on pack available that allows you to level NPCs yourselves, just in case the thought of Meleny no longer brutalizing unsuspecting victims across the flaeness is too much for you to bear.)
In related news: When Co8 5.5.0 BETA is released, the old CMF submissions and discussion threads will be closed down and out of business. In their place, new CMF submissions and discussion threads will arise, geared toward 5.5.0 and assuming it as a starting point. Additionally, the discussion thread will be run more formally so as to efficiently deal with bugs in a more productive manner. There will be bug-reporting guidelines put in place that are similar to what you remember from the TFE-X thread. (In fact, Agetian is also working feverishly as we speak to establish these guidelines.) You may think these guidelines are mean, but they are not. While we do enjoy being mean to you, we also want to help you. We are not very well able to deal with "my game doesn't work, what should I do?" style reports, so you will have to jump through some hoops if you want your issues addressed. That's just the way it is. The hoops are really not that high though, and by jumping through them you help us to help you.

Final note: Co8 5.5.0 BETA will be a public BETA release. The plain fact is, we don't have the resources to beta test this properly ourselves. So you, the people, shall be the beta testers. Eventually, with your help, it will come out of beta and just be a regular old release. We're counting on you.

Stand by for more updates as they become necessary. A new dawn awaits.

Take up your arms, pick up your courage
A black sun is rising as the gods of Europe sleep ...
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Old November 18th, 2008   #18
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Will we be able to use our "old" party members that we created for the current version? I just mean the ones that are in our character "inventory" that we select from when we begin.
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Old November 18th, 2008   #19
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Wow, Co8 is getting reorganized... Hmm... maybe we'll
get a real website soon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious
Killing Joke, eh?
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Old November 18th, 2008   #20
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Quote:
Originally Posted by scryler
Will we be able to use our "old" party members that we created for the current version? I just mean the ones that are in our character "inventory" that we select from when we begin.
You might be able to, depending on which version of the modpack + CMF you created them with, but it would be best if you didn't. We're making every effort to make the new modpack experience as trouble-free as possible (hence requiring you to reinstall the entire game), being as 'cross-contamination' is likely responsible for many of the woes people have experienced in recent times.

Best if you start new with everything.

@maggit - was that Google or personal knowledge?
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Old November 18th, 2008   #21
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

@Gaear Google unfortunately... though I really must get a hold of their CD
from somewhere. I only know the song with a fairly long title "The Death and
Resurrection Show". If I had known earlier that your avatars are KJ's CD
covers I wouldn't have felt so stupid for not noticing the obvious signs of
you being a fan of Killing Joke.

Now, onto the topic. I'll have a good reason to replay ToEE once again
(haven't done that for a year at the least!).

Quote:
Welkwood Bog
What's that? A new map? Great! Kept secret, eh?
And, what about the rebalancing project, is it already in? And if it is, won't this new
map unbalance the game again?
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Old November 18th, 2008   #22
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Damn, I knew we missed something!

As of right now, Welkwood Bog is just (multiple) new maps. But it will be a fully functional mod one day. The idea as I originally foresaw it was to offer Welkwood as an alternative to the Hommlet quests, with an equal amount of XP to be gained. So you could knowingly play the Hommlet quests or Welkwood Bog (since so many people seem to hate Hommlet fedexing), or you could play both and to hell with the consequences. Not sure how that will play out in the end though.

The rest of the rebalancing has yet to be integrated, unfortunately. That's a pretty big job - we could delay release for another year until that's finished or just put out what we've got now, and in the process (and thanks in large part to the marvels of TFE-X) put to rest most of these gameplay issues we've been suffering with lately.

As to KJ, they've had a long and storied career, not just the album with 'Death and Resurrection.' 'Night Time' is my favorite and IMO one of the best ever done. It features 'Europe,' that of the lyrics above. Also 'Love Like Blood,' one of their best known songs, which is either beautiful or horrifying depending on which way you look at it. I find it to be both. Most compelling.

We must play our lives like soldiers in the field
Life is short, I'm running faster all the time
Strength and beauty, destined to decay
So cut the rose in full bloom


Sounds like something from an In Vain/mindSedge song.
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Old November 22nd, 2008   #23
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Update: it looks like the NPC levelling issue will actually revert to the user controlled method. Despite some mighty efforts, Ted hasn't had any (or much) luck with getting it to work properly. It's an engine issue unfortunately, so unless we crack some part of the code we don't yet understand or come up with a workaround (and this is unlikely at this late stage), players will be levelling NPCs with the 5.5 modpack.

You will no longer have the option to not do this either. Installation options are being dramatically trimmed down, so it had to be either/or. And with the vanilla method being so badly flawed, the only real option is for players to do it.
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Old November 25th, 2008   #24
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Just one question about this:

"The complete maps for Welkwood Bog. Note that there will be nothing yet going on at Welkwood Bog, despite what people may say, but you can go there anyway and look around. The complete mod will be an upcoming priority, but I thought it would be nice to let you see the maps and experience the 'ambience' ahead of time. If you so choose. "

Is this really the best choice?

If I understood correctly, there will be a place to visit which is completely empty?

If it is so, wouldn't it be a bit meaningless to include Welkwood Bog at this stage?

And also, I *DO* hope it's possible to play with my previously created characters!

It took an effort that is almost maniacal to create a group of real heros!

I guess I will just test this when 5.5 is out!
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Old November 25th, 2008   #25
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salk
Is this really the best choice?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salk
If it is so, wouldn't it be a bit meaningless to include Welkwood Bog at this stage?
No. Trust us, we've thought it out.
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Old November 25th, 2008   #26
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

I will surely trust your better judgement!

Thanks for answering and congratulation on the 5.5 Beta release!
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Old November 27th, 2008   #27
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

I've never actually played any of the mods from here. (I generally dislike mods) but you folks have done some outstanding work, good job and thanks for the hard work you all put in.
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Old November 28th, 2008   #28
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Are you saying that you only play vanilla ToEE? Perhaps you might be interested in Sitra's Original Content mod. It contains many of the fixes and eliminates most, if not all, of the new content. However, should you choose to accept this mission, you should post your questions on that thread in the General Modifications forum as this mod is not supported by Co8 at large. Although Sitra stated that he will be away for at least six months, I will be there and so will others who are willing to be charitable.
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Old November 28th, 2008   #29
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Til now I've played only the vanilla version.

I've played just this newest mod you all have put out. I must say I am impressed.
Generally I don't play modded games as the change usually takes away from the original expirience. Although, generally the modded games I have attempted to play tend to be strategy games and not rpg's.

I like everything so far I've seen in the mod. I am wondering though if anyone has thought of making some of the temple encounters a bit harder(specifically Hedrak and Zuggy). I loved the game, but my biggest complaint was a 10th level party could roll over any major encounter.

Keep up the good work gents (ladies too if there are any out there).
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Old November 29th, 2008   #30
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Re: The Co8 Modpack and TFE-X

Sitra was working on the "Reactive Temple" mod, but work on that won't be finished until he returns sometime this coming year - hopefully!

My party full-timers made it to 12/13th level and they lost 4 NPCs: Fruella, Otis, Zaxis, and Murfles. I believe I made comments in the above mod's thread about making the Greater Temple more lethal. Unfortunately, none of Sitra's work is compatible with TFE-X and probably won't be until he returns.

In short, I don't think my high level party rolled over the enemy. It was a sufficient challenge for my first game. Perhaps the key is that I rarely fully buff unless it is an epic encounter (or I get my ass kicked by running through too fast and reload).
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