Circle of Eight Forum

Go Back   Circle of Eight Forum > Discussion > The Temple of Elemental Evil

Notices

The Temple of Elemental Evil Discuss Troika's Greyhawk game here!



View The Keep on the Borderlands on Mod DBDownload Keep on the Borderlands 1.0.1 from Mod DBView The Keep on the Borderlands on Mod DB

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 15th, 2008   #1
mongerman
Skeleton
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 30
Uber monk build

I was looking around the atari forums, and found this

(QUOTE)
Here's the skinny on Rod of the Python.

It doesn't turn into a snake, but it does count as a 2handed weapon that you can wield in 1 hand.
This means that it get 1.5x strength bonus, double damage from power attack, etc.
It also counts as a quarterstaff, which is a monk weapon, and can therefore be used with flurry of blows.
It can also be further enchanted to +3 holy, axiomatic, frost, and flame with keen edge castable on it.

Picture a half-orc 28 strength monk duel-wielding these with two-weapon, improved two weapon, and flurry of blows.
Damage output: +13 damage from strength, +16 damage from power attack, +1d6+3 from weapon, +2d6 holy, +2d6 law, +1d6 fire, +1d6 cold, +1 from prayer, +2 from good hope, 6 times a round with haste (at a 19-20 crit range).

To top it all off, monks get improved trip, so all those attacks can be made as trip attacks which ignore armor - eg. almost always hit unless you roll a '1'.
When you make the free attack that comes with the trip, it is always made at full bonus (without power attack penalty), which means again that you're only going to miss on a '1'.
It is also made with your primary hand (1.5x strength) regardless of which hand was used to make the trip in the first place.

Monks with rods of the python are juggernauts of destruction, much more than warriors with fragerach on full power attack.
(UNQUOTE)

Sounds cool to me! How would I go about making such a character, or is it still possible with the fixes introduced by Co8?
mongerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2008   #2
Qwinn
Zombie
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 110
Re: Uber monk build

Quote:
It also counts as a quarterstaff, which is a monk weapon, and can therefore be used with flurry of blows.
-Really-? Flurry of blows works with -any- weapon monks can use in ToEE?

In all the NWN incarnations it only works with unarmed and kukris, I believe. Wow, if it works with quarterstaff that seriously makes me far more interested in the class, never mind the cheese.

Qwinn
Qwinn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2008   #3
mongerman
Skeleton
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 30
Re: Uber monk build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwinn
-Really-? Flurry of blows works with -any- weapon monks can use in ToEE?

In all the NWN incarnations it only works with unarmed and kukris, I believe. Wow, if it works with quarterstaff that seriously makes me far more interested in the class, never mind the cheese.

Qwinn
That was what I was wondering, together with it being counted as a two-handed weapon but being able to dual wield it. Has anyone tried this out?
mongerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2008   #4
mongerman
Skeleton
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 30
Re: Uber monk build

Anyone has more info?
mongerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2008   #5
Cujo
Mad Hatter
Veteran
 
Cujo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Te Wai Pounamu
Posts: 3,634
Re: Uber monk build

there are no dual weapons in ToEE but monks can flurry staffs as per the rules, if they can't in NWN then thats a mistake on their part.

Quote:
When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham).
__________________
011101110110100101101110001000000110000100100000
011000110110111101101111011010110110100101100101
Cujo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 15th, 2008   #6
mongerman
Skeleton
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 30
Re: Uber monk build

Cool! What about the 2 handed str bonus? Is that a bug?
mongerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2008   #7
dragonalumni
Elemental Warrior
 
dragonalumni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 141
Re: Uber monk build

I never have played a monk, how important are each of the stats?
I would assume STR,DEX,CON, but what about WIS?
dragonalumni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2008   #8
maggit
Overrated Rockstar
 
maggit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Poland
Posts: 1,928
Re: Uber monk build

WIS is the key stat for monks. They get AC and class
feats bonuses from WIS.
__________________
maggit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2008   #9
mongerman
Skeleton
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 30
Re: Uber monk build

But if you are building the monk I detailed above, you can compromise on wisdom since you are basically making a fighter. Albiet one with weaker defense. Now if only someone can confirm that rod of the python counts as a 2 handed weapon for dmg calculations...
mongerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2008   #10
erkper
Bugbear Monk
 
erkper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Michigan (yes, Michigan)
Posts: 1,113
Re: Uber monk build

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongerman
But if you are building the monk I detailed above, you can compromise on wisdom since you are basically making a fighter. Albiet one with weaker defense.
No, not really. You would be better off using a higher WIS and a lower DEX - both stats will provide a monk with the same AC bonus, and the WIS will also increase his effectiveness with other class abilities such as stunning blow and quivering palm (though I'm not exactly sure if that works in ToEE.)

As for the Rod of the Python, I've never actually used it in game, but if I had to guess, I would think the modders here would have fixed that bug/exploit a long time ago. The only way to know for sure would be to try it out and see what happens. If you do try it, let us know what you find.
__________________
I speak softly, but I carry a BIG stick -Teddy Roosevelt

Well, I speak LOUDLY and I carry a BIGGER stick - and I use it, too! -Yosemite Sam
erkper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2008   #11
Cujo
Mad Hatter
Veteran
 
Cujo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Te Wai Pounamu
Posts: 3,634
Re: Uber monk build

I've found that a low con doesn't really matter for monks, sure they die quick when they get hit but with a really high AC they don't get hit very often.
__________________
011101110110100101101110001000000110000100100000
011000110110111101101111011010110110100101100101
Cujo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16th, 2008   #12
Qwinn
Zombie
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 110
Re: Uber monk build

Ah, mistake on my part, in NWN you can flurry with unarmed and -kamas-, not kukris. My mistake.

But yeah, they don't permit it with quarterstaves in NWN. Neat that ToEE allows it, I had no idea that was part of the PNP rules.

Qwinn
Qwinn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 17th, 2008   #13
StrontiumDog
Zombie
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 137
Re: Uber monk build

Re rod of the python:- Itīs silly that one canīt summon a python with it, but itīs most interesting to note that it counts as a 2-handed weapon re damage, despite being a 1-handed weapon. I usually sell both staves because I was disappointed at not getting the extra abilities that AD&D gives them. Can anyone tell me if the rod of the viper has the same 2-handed damage-bonus as the rod of the python? I think(?) that the rod of the viper was supposed to have a poisonous effect but it doesnīt seem to have that in TOEE - does it have any other abilities I didnīt perhaps notice?
StrontiumDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 17th, 2008   #14
mongerman
Skeleton
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 30
Re: Uber monk build

Did abit of testing. Created a half orc monk with 20 str, consoled him the rod of the python, and choose to start dealing non lethal dmg to his party members. Max dmg I got over several rounds was 13.

If rod of the python deals one handed dmg, the dmg range should be 1-6 + 5, but does the + 2 to-hit enchantment of the rod translate to + 2 dmg?

If not, then the rod was dealing 1-6 + 5 str + 2 bonus str dmg, which means it still counts as a 2 handed weapon

[edit] Did more testing, this time with a belt + 6 str, and the max dmg was 18. Which means 1-6 + 8 str + 4 str bonus! Rod of the python counts as a 2 handed weapon in terms of dmg!

Question, if i plan to use only the quarterstaff, would it be better to create a fighter4/monk*? I'll end up with the same BAB and flurry of blows, but the start will be easier with the fighter levels as well as the + 2 dmg from weapon spec.

Last edited by mongerman; March 17th, 2008 at 09:12 AM.
mongerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 18th, 2008   #15
Half Knight
Gibbering Mouther
 
Half Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: A smoking cave, Argentina
Posts: 2,148
Re: Uber monk build

Let's get some things clear:
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrontiumDog
Re rod of the python:- Itīs silly that one canīt summon a python with it, but itīs most interesting to note that it counts as a 2-handed weapon re damage, despite being a 1-handed weapon. I usually sell both staves because I was disappointed at not getting the extra abilities that AD&D gives them. Can anyone tell me if the rod of the viper has the same 2-handed damage-bonus as the rod of the python? I think(?) that the rod of the viper was supposed to have a poisonous effect but it doesnīt seem to have that in TOEE - does it have any other abilities I didnīt perhaps notice?
Are you using a vanilla game?
As far as i know, you can summon the python (giant constrictor snake), the "rod" of the python it's actually a staff, so it's logical that do 2 handed weapon damage. If it can be used in one hand, then that's a error.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongerman
If rod of the python deals one handed dmg, the dmg range should be 1-6 + 5, but does the + 2 to-hit enchantment of the rod translate to + 2 dmg?
Of course.

Also, the rod of the viper it's a medium weapon (1 handed). Medium weapons, like longswords, can be wielded with two hands to get the 2-h bonus damage, thus, if you don't equip anything in the other hand (and i mean anything), the game automatically "equip" it as a 2h weapon for bonus damage.
So, if you equip just one rod, then yes, it will do bonus 2h damage, but dual wielding not.
I assume you've consoled just one rod, and probably that's why you have the extra damage.
Half Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 18th, 2008   #16
mongerman
Skeleton
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 30
Re: Uber monk build

Ah crap. I'll test it again with 2 weapons and post the results

[edit] Yup. It counts as a single handed weapon once its dual wielded. So much for the build I guess

Last edited by mongerman; March 18th, 2008 at 07:30 AM.
mongerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 18th, 2008   #17
Half Knight
Gibbering Mouther
 
Half Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: A smoking cave, Argentina
Posts: 2,148
Re: Uber monk build

If you're considering to build a monk, then Lareth's rod it's really cool. Lots of damage, if you use charges and use it 2handed.
Also, the staff of striking it's good, and it's used the same way.

Both are upgradeable

Also, if multiclassing, instead of fighter do 2 or 4 levels of rogue, and two weapons with shortswords, bracers of dexterity, and necklace of wisdom (weapon finesse with shortswords, and later w finesse unarmed). Forgot about strength and give him a good constitution, for a dodgy, tough charcter that strikes at least four times per round. You'll compensate the lack of strength bonus with the sneak attack, and will be fast enough to reposition to get advantage.
If later in the game you equip the boots of speed, it will be a killing machine.

For a though build, strength, power attack, cleave and combat reflexes, along with the striking staff/Lareth rod (or multiclass with fighter for extra nasty feats and a glaive or greatsword),
With a galive and the fast movement (and boots speed if able), you'll be able to hit hard almost anything in the screen.
Half Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 20th, 2008   #18
mongerman
Skeleton
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 30
Re: Uber monk build

Half Knight, the monk thief build sounds interesting. Care to elaborate more? Like, why not more levels of rogue for the sneak attack, and just enough monk levels for the speed boost and flurry of blows?

Last edited by mongerman; March 20th, 2008 at 11:32 AM.
mongerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2008   #19
erkper
Bugbear Monk
 
erkper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Michigan (yes, Michigan)
Posts: 1,113
Re: Uber monk build

The more levels of monk, the higher the base damage you get from unarmed attacks. Monks are also constantly getting interesting class feats like immunity to poison, too.

Personally, I don't care too much for multiclassing monks. It seems like they are one class that the missed class bonuses outweigh the benefits of picking up the class feats of another class. I particularly don't care for multiclassing in rogue. Other than sneak attack (which is nice,) many of the rogue class benefits like evasion are in the monk build already, so you would get them w/o multiclassing and stunting the monk levels. I always try to build my multiclasses with synergetic class feats instead of overlapping ones. Too bad you can't build a Barbarian/Monk...
__________________
I speak softly, but I carry a BIG stick -Teddy Roosevelt

Well, I speak LOUDLY and I carry a BIGGER stick - and I use it, too! -Yosemite Sam
erkper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2008   #20
StrontiumDog
Zombie
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 137
Re: Uber monk build

If TOEE went up to much higher levels, then I would certainly opt for a monk/sorcerer build as that would be very effective, but this game has such lower levels to attain( not much higher than 10-12 if one uses 7 PCs) that its only worth multiclassing if youīre a paladin.
StrontiumDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 21st, 2008   #21
Half Knight
Gibbering Mouther
 
Half Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: A smoking cave, Argentina
Posts: 2,148
Re: Uber monk build

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongerman
Half Knight, the monk thief build sounds interesting. Care to elaborate more? Like, why not more levels of rogue for the sneak attack, and just enough monk levels for the speed boost and flurry of blows?
As Erkper said, the unarmed attack improves with higher levels.
At higher levels the flurry of blows penalizations decrease; combined with two wielding (two kamas for example)at certain level you'll get the natural attacks, plus 2 wielding plus flurry of blows with a small penalization.
Also the speed keeps improving.
The armor bonus too.
And some interesting bonuses and feats (the saving throws of a monk are amazing, close to that of a paladin, you'll rarely see your monk under some spell effect)

Multiclassing a monk just works if you're intending something specific:

-Light warrior: human 2-4 rogue/ 6 n' up monk. Dodge, mobility, weapon finesse,2w fighting, 2w defense. High dex, con, and wis. Bracers of armor, Gloves of dexterity, necklace of wisdom, cloak of resistance and -if able-boots of speed (or potions of haste).
Fast, and quick, isn't a strong warrior, but can reposition easily, and it's really hard to affect with spells or effects or be hit in melee. Excelent flanker or "distraction guy"
Half Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2008   #22
mongerman
Skeleton
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 30
Re: Uber monk build

[Quote]To top it all off, monks get improved trip, so all those attacks can be made as trip attacks which ignore armor - eg. almost always hit unless you roll a '1'.
When you make the free attack that comes with the trip, it is always made at full bonus (without power attack penalty), which means again that you're only going to miss on a '1'.
It is also made with your primary hand (1.5x strength) regardless of which hand was used to make the trip in the first place.[unquote]

What does he mean about trip attacks ignoring armor?
mongerman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2008   #23
Half Knight
Gibbering Mouther
 
Half Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: A smoking cave, Argentina
Posts: 2,148
Re: Uber monk build

Quote:
Originally Posted by mongerman
What does he mean about trip attacks ignoring armor?
Let's put it this way:

If you have a shield and a full plate, would it help against someone tripping you?

Nope.

You just need to "touch" a character to trip, no matter which armor the opponent it's wearing, so AC would be just base 10 + dex modifyer.

That applies even to Iuz! Of course, he have uber-stats, so he'll probably win the trip attempt.

trip it's an opposed strength check (defender has the option to choose between strength or dex)

The same goes for "touch" spells, a shocking grasp spell just need to touch you (what's more, it would help if it wearing metal) no matter the armor.
Half Knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2008   #24
Typhon
Skeleton
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 46
Re: Uber monk build

rod of the python is only 4 feet long, not quite what i'd call a staff unless youre a halfling or something.

dual wielding rods of the python is superior to just using fists and it makes me feel cooler too, especially when enhanced via crafting. i also actually prefer brutally hammering my opponents to death with them than relying on stunning fist/quivering palm which has limited value to me. the monks movement speed doesnt often swing the tide of battles but it doesnt hurt either.

i support mixing monk with rogue, and have done so myself, but its a very difficult decision when you're making such a combat oriented character: do you want the second attack on your flurry of blows at lvl 11 of monk, or do you want the strength damage on your sneak attacks that you can chose as a 10th lvl rogue... i tend to opt for the str dmg because of how devastating it is with so many attacks per round at your disposal.

and you could throw in some fighter/ranger for bab & feats if you werent opting for 9 or 11 lvls of monk.. perhaps 2 ftr / 2 rng / 5 monk / 11 rog would maximize what you get from this build. iirc, the ranger twf does count when choosing feats in ToEE, so it would be better than taking 4 lvls of fighter, giving you track, favored enemy, better saves and a feat you want at the cost of only 4 possible hp. but this kind of makes you an uber hybrid/rogue build more than a monk.

keep in mind this advice is coming from a solo player, i tend to need my character to be able to dish out damage, defend/tank himself, be the party face, the lockpick/trap disabler/sneaker, etc. and i have the luxury of leveling to 20 fairly quickly too. in a large party scenario, this character might take time to shine.
Typhon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25th, 2008   #25
Basil the Timid
Dont Mention the War
 
Basil the Timid's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 1,034
Re: Uber monk build

If not already mentioned, while using Flurry, do not calculate x1.5 damage for two handed weapons - the quarterstaff.
Basil the Timid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Our Host!

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Circle of Eight Design by Ian Miles "Sol Invictus" Cheong