No Treasure?

Random encounter, 2 owlbears, 100+HP, almost kills 3. Treasure-none=0. 4 trolls, almost kills 2, treasure-none. Hydra and troll , none. 85+HP bugbears, very little,2 robes. There are just too many instances where the risk is very high and the reward very low. Trolls are know for their love of jewelry and gems. Owlbear, 100+HP monster and NO treasure. I think this area needs some work. I only have a 1st edition MM, but I know trolls are suppose to have treasure. The reward should match the risk and it just ain't happening.

 

There is alot of missing treasure in this game. Even using D&D 3.5's model, the amount of treasure gained is far less than the risk entailed. Thats the whole point of adventuring as opposed to doing something relatively safe like being a man-at-arms doing caravan guarding, tending a flock of pilgrims or teaching cantrips to pampered noblemen's children.....or whatever.

Once I figure out exactly how to modify things in the InvenSource.mes file, I'm gonna go through my copy of T1-4 with a fine toothed comb and add the right amount of treasure. Adding in the right amount of monsters wouldn't be a bad idea either, but I have no clue how to do that.

 

I think it is a mistake to put more treasure in the game.

The more treasure there is the easier the game becomes.

If you are going to add treasure then you also have to increase the difficulty of the game in order to offset the additional treasure.

Troika was smart in this respect. They tried to keep the treasure levels down to a reasonable level.

Treasure and magic items are only special if they are rare and hard to get. Once you start adding tons of treasure/magic items (adding treasure is the same as adding magic items as this increases the number of magic items that can be crafted) then you basically de-value the magic items in the game.

The Infinity Engine games had way, way, way, way too much treasure. It was pointless.

Diablo is all about treasure. TOEE should be about your skills and character abilities, and your ability to use strategy.

Too much treasure/magic items kills the necessity for strategy, and also makes your character skills and abilities pointless.

In my opinion it is a real mistake to add more treasure. The point of killing monsters should not be to get more loot. Monsters are not lottery tickets (though in games like Diablo monsters actually are lottery tickets).

- Livonya

 

Totally agree with Liv, I am seeing alot of people hanging around here who don't know the difference between a "Mod" and "Trainer". If you're playing ToEE for all the "Fat Lewt" you're playing the wrong game.

 

Believe me, in games like The Lord of the Rings (by Decipher) and other non-D&D tabletop FRPGs, you're right and I totally agree. Unfortunately, with D&D 3.5 set up the way it is, you have to have treasure in order to survive. It is especially true when monsters have greater than 20 Armour Class. It is one of the failings of D&D with Greyhawk (which is patterned off of Newhon/Lankhmar and a Vancian-style world), cause it is supposed to be a mid-level magic world (as opposed to high magic that is typified of slop like Forgotten Realms).

However, most of the treasure I'm going to be putting into the game will be of the monetary sort, since that is the main thrust. There was actually very little missing magical treasure, though there are some odds and ends of that as well, especially in the MoatHouse.

I would like, however, to add the appropriate number of monsters if possible. You are supposed to have to attack those Dire Rats (13 total) cause the fellas are mighty hungry. Having the Brigands in the room come out and join their fellas on the parade field would be good too as they would completely outnumber a party. There are also about 6 missing guardsmen (supposed to be 18 total) and another Sergeant (3 total) at the end of the fight with Lareth's Lt. Would be nice if we could get Lareth to come out and join the fray to help his men. That would be a challenge.

 

I agree with Liv too, and I must ask you: what treasure do you expect that an owlbear (never meeted yet) and trolls may have? They are natural hunters, predators for food and nothing else!

 

I agree with not putting treasure on animals. Owlbears are not going to be carrying gold about with them (maybe if you found their lair, you'd find some odds and ends from corpses there) and trolls are just as likely to be carrying bits of glass as opposed to jewels, if they are carrying anything at all when they are away from their lair.

I don't think you are meant to be able to craft every single item all at the same time. Where's the challenge in that? If you want more money, use the console.

 

I have to agree on the random monsters not having treasure thing. Unintelligent creatures aren't going to have anything outside of their lair, and the stuff in the lair is only going to be on the remains of victims. Trolls and the like don't exactly have pockets. Any treasure they have would either be in their lair or something wearable they've taken a fancy to or somehow discovered to be beneficial.

 

I see that as cheating. I don't even use the console at all. I see nothing wrong with putting back in the monetary and magical treasure that was originally in the module, cause that is how Gary Gygax and Frank Mentzer wrote it.

 

Once again, I'm using my 1st edition D&D mentality. Monsters swallow things, like the BehemothFrog, the can wear rings and jewelry. There can be corpses of victims. A monster doesn't have to be intelligent or in it's lair to have treasure. The troll owlbearkeeper in level 2 has 50 0r so GP. Gaining treasure and money is a necessity in the game. I don't really care how "easy" it makes the game. The treasure and risk are all out balance with the basics of the game. PERIOD!

 

I see them as exceptions and that troll is a special NPC in its lair and that just confirms what told in the previous posts.

 

the treasure i have found in the set encounters of this game are actually a bit higher than the original mod as far as magic goes, there is a little bit less money in some areas but not much, and no wandering monsters arent suppose to have treasure of any kind unless they are adventures, bandits or goblinoid and then only a small amouth. do you carry all your stuff around? i cant carry that much so i leave some hidden away. there is also the right amount of creaturs in the moathouse. there are only supose to be 2 sergants and 12 guards the six mentioned in the mod from the corridor are part of the group listed in the barracks. we have talked about bring lareth out but it could cause problems with his mid battle dialouge. the amout of treasure we recieve is balanced for the game just as it was originally designed if anything they added more when they made this.

 

I think the money in the game as is is more than sufficient. I generally find myself not crafting because of the XP requirements rather than lack of money. (I often end the game with tens of thousands of platinum pieces) As it stands the amount of money you can earn by selling the treasure found is hundreds of times the wealth one could expect to find in villiages the size of Nulb and Hommlet.

 

Character wealth in this game easily approaches (or even surpasses) that of what you'd expect an epic level party to have.

I really think adding more would be really broken. If you're going to add more to some encounters then existing encounters need to be stripped in order to maintain the overall balance (which is already broken imo).

I don't think anyone wants to go through and strip existing encounters to bump up others in the rewards department. I think it's fine as is.

 

I should think if anything loot should be subtracted from the game. As it is a party can craft loads of magic items , and with no consequences ( except experience and gold, but that's as it should be). After a few months of crafting wouldn't the temple be thoroughly repopulated, and assassins dispatched to take out the troublesome adventurers. Having less money to throw around might balance out the lack of time constraints on crafting.