Note that this is not a criticism of Livonya's mod. It is an examination of the currrent state of NPC looting and inventory management, however. Liv (and earlier Co8 efforts) have improved on what was initially a rather awful problem. NPC inventory looting seems to me to be a lose-lose . . . um, -lose? situation. If you play without any mods, you're completely screwed. If you play with Co8's original fix, you're still stuck with NPCs lugging their starting equipment around (wet socks of overburdening +5?) and becoming overburdened if you give them anything else. If you play with Liv's fix, you're doing pretty well . . . except for two nagging problems -- the Killer Loop! 1. If you tell NPCs not to sell any of their items, they will hang onto everything, even if their current equipment becomes obsolete and you want to give them new and better stuff. Welcome back, overburdening problems. (You can buy their starting equipment from them, but that's a once-only deal, if I'm not mistaken?) 2. If you don't tell NPCs not to sell any of their items, they will sell off everything you give them every time you hit the store. Thus, you can't outfit them with a variety of weapons for different uses that can't be equipped at the same time, i.e., slashing weapons, bludgeoning weapons, etc. You have to take the hit on one of these, unfortunately. Now, I understand that NPC interaction should not be "hassle free," as by its nature, dealing with others can often be difficult. But these problems make me want to skip NPCs altogether as being too much of a pain. However, I don't want to skip NPCs altogether because I know Liv has rewritten a lot of their dialogue and scripts and made them intriguing once again. Isn't there a way, and wouldn't it be appropriate RP-wise, to just allow the player complete control over NPC inventory? If they're an integral part of your party, no one's going to abuse them or rip them off. I think most of us would shower them with really good stuff so they could help us achieve our goals. And if we did rip them off, who really cares? It's just you and you're PC out there, after all. You might offend your microprocessor, but nobody else would mind. Opinions welcome . . .
But how? The question is how? I did the best I could do. I understand that it would be good to have more inventory control, but how? Solve the "how" part then we can discuss it but until you solve the "how" part there really isn't any point in the discussion. Personally, I would LOVE to have it work the way Troika said it would work where the NPCs would sell stuff, buy stuff, and make intelligent choices on their own. But just because I would like it to work that way doesn't mean I can make it work that way. I don't know how to give 100% control of NPC inventory to the PC player. So I simply did what I actually knew how to do. I completely agree that my solution isn't the best. But that was the best I could manage. - Livonya
By the way your "killer loop" only exists if you let it exist. This is how I do it. I buy their starting equipment. I then equip them with the items I want them to have. They will ONLY sell items that are not equipped. For example potions, wands, ranged weapons (anything they are not holding on their body). If I want them to hang on to something then I remove all of their items. I then give them the item I don't want them to sell (for the most part this is just potions/wands/scrolls -- things that disappear once used). I ask them not to sell. I then give them back the rest of their stuff. I have control of their inventory. At no point do I lose control. I decide what they can and can not sell. I can change their stuff if I want to. If something becomes obsolete I sell it and get them something new. When you ask them not to sell their stuff it is your decision what they will hang on to. Your "killer loop" only exists because you are telling them not to sell items that you actually want to get rid of at a later time. Don't do that and your "killer loop" goes away. - Livonya
I'm kind of confused here. Before, Fruella for example, only looted money and jewelry, gems, etc. The original start-up equipment couldn't be dropped and the jewelry stuff. Armour and shields, weapons and stuff could be moved around and dropped. I just got her platemail and a master metal sheild but now she wont drop the scalemail and wooden shield. I haven't done anything with equipment dialog. I have just Atari2 and 1.5. We're talking heavy encumbrance here. Do I need co83.04 or what?
Liv - Thanks for the clarification. I see that your method is the solution for freeing yourself from the "killer loop." I wasn't aware that the "don't sell" request applied multiple times to whatever they were currently holding.
Gaear - Oh, I may not have explained it well originally. Here is exactly how it works. Whenever an NPC leaves your party every item in their inventory is tagged as their property... they will not sell these items or give them to the PC. So what my "fix" does is to actually quickly remove the NPC from the party and instantly put them back into the party (I also make sure that any special events that are triggered by an NPC being disbanded do not get set off). This is why they NPC will change order on the line-up. Since they leave the party and then join as the member on the far right hand side. So yes, you can do it over and over again. Whatever they are holding at that moment will be tagged as their property. This ONLY applies to what they are carrying at this exact moment in time. Anything you give them in the future will not be tagged. So if you give them something new they will sell it if it is not actually being carried on their person. Sorry if my initial explanation was not that good. - Livonya
My workaround I know this won't be popular to all... but my workaround to this problem is to simply use npcs only when necessary (e.g. adding prince thrommel while in the temple). Using the mod that allows more than 6 PCs you can get that 6 or 7, or even eighth PC customized to your exact specifications. It's not like you're missing out interesting, entertaining banter by not having NPCs, because there is simply very little of this kind of thing included in the game. If we were playing Baldur's gate, I wouldn't make this recommendation. Anyhow, I recently started a party of 6 PC and I'm loving it. No having to point and click on a corpse twice to loot, no having to "settle" for NPCs using substandard gear because better stuff would weigh them down. There is just very little about NPCs in ToEE that make them worth having IMHO... other than maybe to add an extra sword arm (which isn't even a draw anymore).
