Game Engine Buyout for Modding

I am personally very impressed with the amount of work going on to modify the game, I also would like to be able to make modifications to some of the hard coded game engine.

Does anyone know how to contact whom ever now owns the rights to the game engine?

I would be interested in getting together with other interested parties to buy the rights to the game engine. That does not mean I am wealthy by any stretch of the imagination, but I am hoping that it would be possible for some of the other fans to band together, and pool our resources to make something like this happen. Of course the best possible thing would be if whom ever owns the rights would just release the source to the community; maybe under the LGPL or something. Then together we could make any modifications we want to the game engine using the source code. We could even look into porting the game to other platforms. Is anyone else interested? Other thoughts?

-Firestrand

 

Maybe doable

Firestrand,

If the community wants to start negotiations with Troika on the engine, I believe I can help put together a purchase strategy, however a "fan held" engine makes little commerical sense unless the people who have put so much effort on fan patches actually want to use the engine in a new game or an expansion to TOEE.

If that is the case, as a long-time banker and financial advisor I am willing to work pro-bono on this.

Regards.

 

While Troika owns the rights to the game engine, Atari has the exclusive right to make D&D games. Getting a deal with Troika might not be impossible, but building a D&D game with that engine will require Atari's approval - and a lot of cash.

 

I am not a computer expert, but as I see it, I think it should be feasable.

Atari may be able to exclusively market D+D games, but unless the engine to run it (or any D+D game) is what D+D'ers expect, it will not do well. Instead of buying the rights, how about asking for premission to modify the engine to what we, the real users, find to be "perfect" and then being allowed to use it in return for all the work. I am sorry to say, but anyone out there modding TOEE right now is technically being used.

Since Troika is dead, who can come along and improve the game. Us. Buying the rights would not work, as then if anyone wanted to use it there would be a whole new problem. But being able to work on it, for Atari's benefit while we get to use it makes more sense. Then, for any future development, the engine is there to use, can be licensed from Atari and save work, time and money.

In this way, just as in D+D, modules can be made that add on to TOEE to expand the world. Just as the core rulebooks are needed, so to is the engine to craft the modules on, and everything will have a level playing field. My regret is that Troika is dead, so no add-ons, sequels or anything is on the horizon. TOEE is original, and unless we can find a way, it will remain so.

 

In response to Martinius' offer, I know I am willing to accept any help possible. I also see the wisdom in a fan owned engine not being wise.There should be a way we can setup a non-profit developer cooperative for working on the engine? Similar to an open source project, except the engine would remain the property of the non-profit so there is a central location for dealing with Atari, licensing, etc. I am more that willing to lead the way with any help available. If we can get the engine and source, and get any modifications stable and working the way we all want, I don't think Atari will be such a problem. If the non-profit co-op creates anything new, we may even be able to live the dream and have it distributed by Atari.

If for some reason we are unable to get Atari to agree to licensing and distribution, we can simply remove all references to D&D, use the same basic engine and create something similar and enjoyable.

Let me know what everyone thinks.
Do you think a non-profit co-op is a good idea?
Do you have a better one?

-Firestrand

 

Allyx-

I appreciate your concern, but I think getting the engine, and other details worked out initially will be more important than worrying about the licensing rights to D&D.

I think I remember hearing something about Wizards of the Coast being pretty friendly towards non-profit use of game mechanics. So we would probably need to contact someone in their legal department to get something in writing to that effect, but that would allow continued use of the engine even without the D&D branding.

I also think you are underestimating the power of a good game. “If you build it they will comeâ€, certainly applies to computer games as well. While I agree D&D branding would be a great help, I don’t think it would be a deal breaker for using the game engine.

Martinius may have an idea about this, but I think if we successfully purchase the rights to TOEE and engine, we may also be getting some contract rights with Atari. There may be some liability involved as well, but it is of course too soon to tell. A limiting or waiving of liability may need to be part of any deal.

-Firestrand

 

I have to say that contacting anyone from Wizards of the Coast, Troika, or Atari could be a bad idea.

Modding their game and engine is probably frowned on and if you alert them to the fact that it is happening then they might actually just tell us to stop or file legal action against any web site that supports modding.

The odds of them actually letting us do anything "officially" would be slim, and while I it sounds really cool on paper, you might actually end up causing the opposite effect.

There have been numerous examples where a company went nuts about modding and basically just shut it all down. It is stupid of course since modding is what give longevity to games, but some companies have their heads way up their rectums.

At the moment I am sure they have 0 idea that anything is happening to their game. And I am sure we can pretty much do whatever we want and no one will ever know or care... but if you contact them then you will shatter their blissful ignorance...

- Livonya

 

Contacting atari seems like an especially bad idea considering they had the children, and the brothel removed from the game before release.

 

Here's what ToEE's readme says:

That's pretty explicit! But it should be taken with a grain of salt. IMHO Atari doesn't care, really. The game is history for them. As long as it stays strictly non-commercial, we can mod the hell out of the game.

Back in the day when the game had just come out, modding tools like ToEEExtract were posted on the official Atari message boards, and AFAIK noone ever received a cease and desist letter.

Steve Moret from Troika even posted here on the Co8 site, so the developers were well aware of what was going on. That being said, they were probably glad that the modders made their game a bit more playable.

 

Failure.

When I first bought ToEE and played it, I thought , This isn't the D&D I know. I was ready to give it up as a bugged-out piece of junk. Then I surfed the internet and found GameBanshee and this site. Now after many mods and hours of trial and error I've got a game I enjoy to play. I read and article that said ToEE sold 128k copies. I know a lot of them aren't beign played. The game is a failure to the corporate types . Troika has shut down, Atari could care less. They have the resources to cover a failed game. Wizards of the Coast is super protective of the D&D namesake. Any kind of corporate/legal type dealings with those people would be a nightmare. Maybe, someday, the corporate types will learn that gamers aren"t morons that will buy anything. If a game doesn't play well. it doesn't take long to get around the game world. If it doesn't play well. it doesn't SELL very well. What a shock!

 

You have to remember human ego. None of us want to see our prize work bettered by someone else. Personally, if someone can show me a better way, I welcome it and learn from it. I would just keep all of the modding underground and keep it here on this website/messageboard. Afterall, those visiting this site obviously care about the game enought to understand its intricacies and the value of all the modding available. Why make something for the masses and attract attention to its doom when only those who really care deserve it. What momma don't see, momma don't mind.

 

What if?

What if word got around that with some patches and fixes and things, ToEE is a fun and enjoyable game? How could that hurt Troika, or Atari, or WOTC? If these people want to shut down the mod community and lose the support it gives to the game, then maybe they don't need a nose on their face either.
I think the key is, does WOTC want to promote and expand D&D and how are they going to go about it. Troika and Atari didn't do them very well, so maybe there's some hesitation and concern there. I really wouldn't expect any help or co-opertation from any of the corporate types. Like the old chief told me long ago-"you're on your own."

 

while i would love to see this game better by people with the ideas and drive like us i have to agree that we defintinly dont want to deal with WoC in any legal way in trying to obtain rights to use D&D if we get the engine. i have had dealings with WoC in the past and they are a pain in the ass when it comes to game rights. we want to avoid any dealings with them and probally atari too. its to bad black isle isnt still around they were pretty open with this stuff.