Darley

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by The Kern, Jul 24, 2014.

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  1. The Kern

    The Kern Member

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    Different sites, different opinions. What's the final verdict? Does having Darley in the party prevent you from talking to anyone (as does having the Scorpp, for example)?

    I would like to know this as I currently have Burne in the party, but he leaves when I get the golden skull (is it even possible to get him back?) .. So I am wondering if it's cool to get it a bit earlier and have Darley as a fill-in caster while he's gone, or if I should absolutely do this last and not have Burne in the party as little as possible.

    So does having Darley in the party make other NPC's talk to me or not??
     
  2. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Good NPCs dislike Darley very much, unfortunately.
     
  3. The Kern

    The Kern Member

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    Thank you for the extremely clear and well-detailed answer. You didn't need to go to so much effort.
     
  4. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Truly, I'm amazed that people aren't tripping over themselves to answer your questions, what with how nice, polite and an all around fun person to chat with that you are. -_-
     
  5. The Kern

    The Kern Member

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    Because you know me so well from the handful of posts I've made so far, right? Step down from the soap box.

    Back to the issue at hand: What's the point of answering anyone unless you're going to do it properly. Why waste everyone's time with a half-baked, incomplete answer?

    I don't see how any sane person could disagree with me on that point.
     
  6. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Humorously I thought you were being humorous. ;)

    You seriously have no takeaways from what I wrote? Good NPCs don't like Darley ... not liking her, they probably won't talk to you if she's around, right?
     
  7. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    Kern, I guess what I should have said was that demanding or expecting anything from folks who volunteer their time to produce this modpack and support the people that come here is surely a bad idea.

    I recommend that if an answer you get does not meet your criteria of a proper answer, merely wait and maybe someone else will try to help you.

    But please try and be grateful that someone took the time to try and help you.
     
  8. The Kern

    The Kern Member

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    I am grateful - not only for the amazing work these guys have done, but for the help I've received so far from these boards.

    That being said, no one is above constructive criticism. So please, take your glad-handing "yes-man" attitude elsewhere. He gave me an incomplete answer, I gave a sarcastic response. In fact, you are the only one who seems to have taken any offence to this. Calm down.

    Gaear, that could mean any number of things. Not liking her doesn't necessarily mean they won't talk - it just may mean people may not give you quests, or be forthcoming with information, and whatever else. Kind of like having a Drow in the party - most are suspicious, but not hostile/automatically snubbing you.

    So I took as much from your answer as I have researching the topic elsewhere - open to interpretation/ambiguous.
     
  9. chano

    chano Established Member

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    The lack of posting doesn't mean that we agree with you, it might mean that we are just too baffled to post.

    I usually try things myself before asking, because it might take a few hours before getting an answer and if i am in the middle of playing i usually save and then try out the thing i am wondering and then reload.
     
  10. The Kern

    The Kern Member

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    So do I.. Except I was nowhere near Darley at the time. Anyway, I tried it for myself, so anyone reading this, here is a CLEAR AND CONCISE ANSWER:

    If Darley is in your party and you try to talk to someone in a town, they say things like "look behind you!" No menu is brought up and you cannot interact at all. Furthermore, if you walk into Hommlet inn, everyone attacks you (including any good aligned NPC's you might have in your party, such as Otis.)

    And yes, this happens even if she is in her human form - which is beyond stupid. If your perception isn't high enough to detect her as a Demon at level 10, it's unlikely a stupid peasant will be able to detect her. This would be confusing as hell for players who didn't know what she really was. They'd be wondering why the hell people suddenly won't talk to them for no reason.

    The more I play this game, the more I'm wondering if the people who originally made it were clinically retarded.

    A way around Darley should be that she transforms into a human during times spent in cities, and reverts back to her demon form when adventuring. In fact, why does she even need to be in demon form? Alternatively, maybe giving her a robe should disguise her demonic appearance and people should be fine.

    As it is, no one would ever take Darley, thus there is NO POINT to her even existing.

    This should have been amended, I feel, in some patch or whatever.

    Another thing is the Fire Node - putting 6 fireball hurling salamanders isn't challenging - it's ridiculous. "Here, have some of the most powerful enemies in the game at once. Good luck." That's not fun, it's just stupid.

    And I haven't even gotten up to the Balor yet. I wonder what that will be like.
     
  11. chano

    chano Established Member

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    I agree that the salamanders is a tough fight, but they cast fireballs for 3 rounds and then move in for Close combat, you probably have 2 ring of fire protection at this point and your wizard/sorcerer should have globe of minor invulnerability and a few summon spells.
    The fight is not essential as it is of the right and not on your way to the Balor so you can always skip it or save it for later.

    I myself love the tough fights and the fire node especially.

    I never use Darley but i sometimes use the troll chief, most people wont talk to me when he is tagging on but he will Always rejoin you if you ask him to leave, not sure if Darley does that.
    The problem with those npc i guess is that they are hardcoded so the modders can't change their behavior or other peoples reaction to them.
     
  12. The Kern

    The Kern Member

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    I adore difficult encounters. Such as the fight I had with Hedrack. That was just awesome. The whole time it felt tough and I had to really be thinking deeply about my moves. Whereas the Salamander fight was just fireballs.. Again and again and again. How is that fun? It's maddening.

    For anyone else having trouble with the stupid Salamander encounter, I'll save you 2 hours of trial and error. Don't bother listening to any "fire protection ring" nonsense, that only prevents 15 damage per ring, and any other protection spells are similar in their worthlessness. Fireballs do excessive damage and the problem is you can't get your wizard or whoever else in a position where you can deal effectively with the Salamanders. In fact, I am convinced anyone offering generic "protection spell" advice got their ass kicked and has never actually beaten the encounter and are just offering generic advice that anyone can find online or through experience. Fire protection rings+ protection spells DO NOT WORK. The only thing that might is lesser globe of invulnerability, but that only protects a few people at best. It won't prevent the rest of your party from dying.

    So, without further ado, here's what you do:

    - Defeat all of the other nodes first and get the Demon Stones.. THEN:
    - Sneak up to the Salamanders with your rogue. They will eventually spot him, but that's okay. Your point was to get enough line of sight happening for your spells, as well as making the rogue their target.
    - Next, they will only target the rogue (for whatever reason) with fireballs. Your rogues saving throws should be awesome at this point, so all fireballs = 0 damage. Otherwise, they will fireball your wizard and anyone else nearby, ending in a very quick death for everyone.
    - Make sure the Demon Stones are in your fighter's backpacks (just so they have something to do on their turns and your casters are free to cast summons.)
    - OPTIONAL: At this point, cast stinking cloud with your wizard. This will hopefully sicken some of the Salamanders, but it can also backfire on you. I found it effective because of my high saving throws, but it is a risk nonetheless.
    - Now, the fun: Start summoning! Anything! Everything! The Demon Lords (especially Glabrezu and Vrock) are awesome here. So are Earth Elementals and even spiritual weapons can do a bit of damage over a long battle.
    - With your wizard/cleric, attack spells are the next order of priority. Magic Missile, Cone of Cold, Ice Storm, even Flame Strike does damage. Lots of these are AOE spells, so be careful and cast wisely.
    - Run in with your fighters when the Salamanders are low on health to clean up the job.

    This encounter is so tough, in fact, that most of the summons will be dead. That's right, all 3 Demon Lords put together are still no match for the Salamanders (You could also defeat Balor first and then come back to them, having 4 Demon Lords on your side in that case. It'd still be tough).

    Anyway, that is how ridiculously overpowered they are. They have high saving throws, huge hitpoints, hit hard and from far away in melee. They can also cast spells over ridiculously long distances, so running is not an option. The only thing they are missing is spell resistance and they'd be the most broken creature in any game ever.

    I despise when game creators make creatures like that. They suck all of the fun out of the game and think that by putting a tonne of tough creatures together creates a challenging atmosphere. No, all it does is create frustration and forces the player to look for tactics which bypass the game engine.

    If this rogue trick didn't work (and they kept targeting my wizard with their fireballs), I honestly have no idea how I would have beaten them. This is the least painful method available.

    Also, Demon Stones recharge after 3 days, not a week as per spell description.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  13. Oleg Ben Loleg

    Oleg Ben Loleg Established Member Supporter

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    Absolutely.
     
  14. The Kern

    The Kern Member

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    No one said the lack of posting was anyone agreeing with me though :S
     
  15. marc1967

    marc1967 Established Member

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    I believe the Co8 team changed the salamanders to do double damage with their fireballs while IN the fire node, to match up with the original module. I think it may have gone a little too far, and the encounter can take people by surprise if they are used to playing the vanilla version of the game.

    It's no secret that you are entering a dangerous fire world before you even step through the portal. Each character should have Resist Energy (fire) and Protection from Energy (fire) as the most obvious prebuff decision in the game before going in. The RE is usually about 30 and the PFE over 100 at that point in the game as cast by your magic user. I'm not saying that IS the solution, but using those two spell in tandem should be done without even thinking twice. This provides much more protection than the simple ring.

    The best part of this game is each person finding the approach that works best for them. As you suggested I had a few rogues with improved evasion get in there end just stab away while they lobbed useless fireballs against their improved evasion. I was like "thank you for casting those fireballs over and over again, and not poking me with those giant spears."
     
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