The Animal Companion Problem

Discussion in 'The Temple of Elemental Evil' started by Gaear, Jan 30, 2013.

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  1. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Okay, animal companions charge into battle, often to their doom. We can fix this - yay! We simply give them a ready vs. approach strategy (which makes them pretty useless but it's probably better than suicide). That way, on their turn, they simply stand there and guard. (I may try to tweak this is the future to guard injured friends - didn't work right initially - but for now they just guard themselves.)

    I need to know what animals potentially are animal companions. The manual says, for first level druids: dire rat, (attack) dog, wolf, jackal, chicken, lizard, black bear, brown bear, panda bear, polar bear. It also has a slightly smaller list for fourth level rangers or whatever. When I test a first level druid, I can select wolf, jackal, dire rat, chicken, or attack dog. So what is it exactly?

    I need to know specifically what can be an animal companion because sadly Troika did not differentiate them from other general animals like wolves you encounter in the wild, so I have to give each proto a script that tells them to stop acting stupid if they are a companion while leaving the enemy versions alone.
     
  2. Legless

    Legless Established Member

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    AFAIK, any and all you mentioned. You choose from a radial menu. I've tried all sorts just to see what they do. As it stands, they are basically cannon fodder. I even tried the chicken once! Against kobolds etc, the bigger the better so I normally go for one of the bears as they can actually win a fight.
     
  3. tom

    tom Established Member

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    that would be brilliant - the running in and getting killed (or worse having to be rescued) thing stops me from playing with animal companions at higher levels. It would be great if you could fix this!

    from memory the manual lists the companions available at lower levels (list expands as you go up levels) up to and including polar bear / panda bear.

    at very high level can you also get a dire bear ? (this might be wishful thinking)
     
  4. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    Okay thanks. I still need an enumerated list though from somebody in the know.

    I've added an element wherein companions will change their strategies and join melee if the party is not doing well. Seems to work fine. Sadly there is no real way for them to identify their masters that I can see though, so they won't rush to their aid, they'll just join the battle.

    I've also got them simply attacking the closest enemy. They used to all have the flank strategy, which was probably a really bad idea due to AoOs. If they just rush the closest, there should be less of that.

    What exactly is the point of companions though? They are "loyal" or whatever, okay, but they don't confer bonuses or anything, do they? What I'm getting at is, if they don't fight for you, what else do they really have to offer?
     
  5. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon Established Member Supporter

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    Would it be possible for the Animal Companion to try to flank the enemy if there is only 1 but to only attack the closest if there are more than 1 enemies?

    An animal companion allows a Druid / Ranger to get a flanking bonus while being alone when having the animal companion flanking the enemy.

    It shares spells so spells the D/R casts on himself count as cast on the AC too if within 5 feet.

    The AC is not actually an animal but a "magical beast" that gains bonus hit dice when the D/R gains levels, e.g. +2 HD for D/R´s level 3-5, +4HD from level 6-8, so it´s tougher than normal comparable animals.
     
  6. J'allan UlDragos

    J'allan UlDragos Dragon Warrior

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    the "suicidal" rush attacks the animal companions seemed to prefer used to stress me out, until i noticed that a druid and a ranger can both call another pet after one has been lost in battle simply after resting for 8 hours. wait until the 'blue circle' and/or portrait (in battle) are clearly both gone before calling a new one, or you can run into anomalies... it's recommended to call the new critter on a new map, in my experience, then where you lost the first one.

    If you can manage to keep them alive, they 'level' along with their master, and these creatures that stay alive USUALLY (but not always) seem to grow in strength faster than a newly summoned beast. In fact, TOEE seems to 'reset' the levels of the animal companion when a higher level character summons a new beast after one is killed... Jackals have the highest HP usually when i summon one with my barbarian druid... even at level one when he is just a druid. and yet when my ranger gets to level 4 and summons a jackal, it has lower HP. It seems kind of random. AND you would think a bear would have more HP than a jackal!

    this is an incomplete list, but the animal companions i have summoned have included:
    Bear (brown, Panda, black) around 30-40 HP, varies
    wolf 20 HP
    jackal 53 HP
    lizard 20 HP
    chicken 4-5 HP
    rat 4-5 HP
    dog 20 HP

    i THINK there are some others (maybe a snake, spider???) but i have never called those. and yes, the manual is not entirely accurate in the list, but its close. and there are creatures 'unlocked' to be called as the ranger or druid increases in level.

    The animal companion seems to get a 'level' boost every 2 or so levels they stay alive with their master.

    I for one would LOVE the attempt to give them some better AI. the animal should have SOME self preservation :) though one has to admire their fearlessness!

    WISHFUL THINKING: it would be fantastic if you could issue 3 simple commands to the animal companion - Guard Me (stay close to the character), Stay at this spot, Attack! :)

    But i definitely appreciate any effort to improve their scripted behavior. Thank you Gaear!

    Often to preserve low level animal companions (i.e. the Moathouse, TOEE corridors, etc.) i would position the animal companions out of sight in a nook or corner, so they would be out of sight of any hostiles. they would stay in place, as long as nothing came in their line of sight. LOl as if they were on guard duty, for roleplaying purposes i guess.

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm#theDruidsAnimalCompanion

    there is the official list for animal companions for 3.5 rules...

    On a totally unrelated note, it's too bad the Paladin does not get their class ability to summon a celestial mount, the equivalent to this ability.

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/paladin.htm#thePaladinsMount

    that would have been AWESOME. and pretty much impossible to implement in this game. :(
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  7. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon Established Member Supporter

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    Isn´t that because for the animal companion the rangers "effective druid levels" are one-half his ranger levels? So a 4th level Rangers AC is like that of an 2nd level Druid.
     
  8. sirchet

    sirchet Force for Goodness Moderator Supporter

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    I think he can take a feat for that though, Animal Bond maybe?
     
  9. General Ghoul

    General Ghoul Established Member

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    Gaear, I might suggest a book, the Gord the Rogue series, by Gary Gygax (maybe you have heard of him). In one Gord friend, Curly the druid, does a prayer and summons a brown bear companion to help them against a demon trapped in a ruin. The bear fights valiantly, but does die in the battle, but helps defeat the demon. Classic druidic behavior.
     
  10. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Thanks Gaear !!
    Halfway intelligent animal followers is something I have been hoping to see for quite a while now. I vaguely seem to recall that Ted had worked out some sort of system where you could determine what action(s) an Animal follower would take, but that was 2 or 3 years ago, so I could be mistaken . I just did a few quick tests. A druid starts off with the following choices for Animal Follower: Wolf, Jackal, Dire Rat, Chicken and Attack Dog. At some point (probably 4th or 5th Level) ToEE adds Panda Bear, Black Bear, Brown Bear and Giant Lizard.
    What I do to keep the "Pet" alive at the lower levels ( Character Levels 1 - 3 ) is to move the "pet" WAAAY in the back before going into a major battle, so he won't charge right in and get chopped to pieces. At the mid levels ( 3 - 7 ) I still try to keep the pet in the back, but take the precaution of casting "Mage Armor" and "Barkskin" on him. At 7th Level and above, he gets "Stoneskin" and pretty much goes wherever he wants. The Combination of spells along with the extra hit points and Natural Armor Adjustment from the higher Druid levels means that the Animal Companion can pretty much survive anything short multiple critical hits from a giant. For more info on Animal Followers, check out http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm#theDruidsAnimalCompanion .
    The Royal Canadian
     
  11. The Royal Canadian

    The Royal Canadian Established Member

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    Hi Gaear

    The Royal Canadian
     
  12. Legless

    Legless Established Member

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    Would It be possible to add some of the properties that familiars have? They can be controlled in battle. They have a radial menu to determine combat behaviour, just like a PC. I imagine that this might not be possible as familiars take up an NPC slot and are shown with the rest of the party at the bottom of the screen. Also, If you do succeed in making them controllable, which I have no doubt you will, will the caster who called the AC then loose xp when the AC dies? The familiar is more of a magical being crafted by the wiz/soc to act as a servant. So no real will of its own. An animal COMPANION is just that, an amimal that accompanies the summoner, thats more like a pet with all its good and bad points, like obediance or lack of it, loyalty and a mind of its own. AFAIK there is no loss of exp if one dies. Also a party of 8 druids, for example would mean no other character could be recruited to the party, but 8 AC's could be summoned giving a total of 16 elements in the party, effectively. If their behaviour was ajusted to make them controllable and if the eight druids then summoned all the creatures that they could from their spell lists, it might start causing balance problems as well as lag, jerk stop ctd etc. I though that the number of beings was limited to 20 on each side of any fight in toee, so this in itself would cause problems. Eight level 20 druids with eight AC's and spell summoned monster allies even at just one at each level would mean 88 elements in the party, theoretically.
     
  13. Shiningted

    Shiningted I want my goat back Administrator

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    The KotB stuff, which includes the Handle Animal skill, Wild Empathy, and implementation of things like Fetch and Drag as well as various combat tactics, are all obviously available to be implemented if Gaear so desires. The only caveat I put on it is that the rule that ACs won't attack unnatural critters (undead, constructs etc) unless trained to do so be included, else its all win and no effort for the player. (May as well give everyone a riding dragon).

    That being said, I haven't done this in the past as ret-conning a skill into a game means adding lots of potential bugs. Most of the new skills in KotB were included from the beginning, even if they weren't immediately activated (like Speak Language). The couple that I AM ret-conning - Disguise and Knowledge (Nature) - are, indeed, a PITA. Probably better Geaer does his own thing on this.
    Is that in ToEE?
     
  14. tom

    tom Established Member

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    They fight and they soak up damage. I treat them like fighters at low level. They really help to keep the party alive. at higher levels you can buff them with animal growth etc.

    replacing the instruction to flank with an instruction to attack the nearest opponent would stop them from running into the middle of a group of opponents and getting hacked to death from all sides. that in itself would be a big improvement

    personally i would be happy to see them added to the party in the way that familiars can be.
     
  15. Gaear

    Gaear Bastard Maestro Administrator

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    That won't be happening. As far as ToEE and KotB goes, let's face it - KotB is a more intellectual endeavor, and Ted has more leeway in making it how he wants. Mainly all I want to do is stop the silly suicidal runs if that's indeed what the primary concern is.

    I think I may be able to basically get them to do three different things, depending on conditions: guard themselves if nothing else is going on, approach an injured ally and then switch to guarding while in their vicinity, and attack the nearest enemy if things are getting desperate. These limitations are a result of the inherent limitations of the AI. You can't, for example, get a critter to approach a PC of your choice; they will only do that for certain conditions, like if a PC is injured. Too bad, because it would probably be ideal to just have them stick by their masters, but no dice.

    My main concern I guess is that players will get pissed off at ACs cooling their heels if they've got nothing else to offer.
     
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