Circle of Eight Modpack v7 / v7 NC General Commentary & Discussion Thread

[Gaear]

Why were you doing HB at level 13, D?

[Gehennis]

While preparing to fight Hedrack my sorcerer miscast the Stoneskin spell she was trying to place on the fighter when she (the fighter) made her save, instead casting Protection from Law- a spell she doesn't even know. Anyone else ever have this happen? (This is v.7.8 NC BTW)

[Daryk]

@Gaear: I thought it had been moved to after the Temple, so I didn't try to start it ahead of time. Has it not been moved yet? If it hasn't, I missed out on a ton of XP. Most of HB was worthless XP-wise to a 13th level party. And seriously, given your overhaul of the Senshock fight, I really can't wait to see what you do with HB.

@Gehennis: I've noticed that if you are trying to drink potions after loading near an enemy spellcaster, the game engine occasionally will apply the (defensive) spell the enemy was casting vice the potion. I would assume the same happens with spells you're trying to cast. To fix it, either wait for the enemy to finish buffing, or move farther away to do your own buffing.

[Gaear]

No, HB hasn't been moved yet. Moathouse Respawn was moved in 7.8. You'll know when HB has been moved because you won't be able to go there until after you get to Verbobonc.

[Daryk]

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I must have misread the respawn moving to mean all the new content except Welkwood bog.

[Daryk]

I just talked to Bear Essentials and they also don't buy their primary stock and trade (leather) at full price. The good news is that Cyn's Silks (next door) does.

[Gaear]

Okay, I see the issue with Veenah and Heather. Apparently if you don't have an invensource buy number assigned to the seller as well as the seller's chest, they pay less, similar to the buy-anything-but-at-a-reduced-price setting. Not sure if we ever knew that before specifically.

Can you check and see if Veenah/Heather will buy anything at all, or just cloth/leather armor respectively at a reduced price? If the former, it means no buy setting in invensource.mes defaults to 2 - buy anything but at a reduced price; if the latter it means a new behavior we were not likely aware of - buy the stuff you deal in but at a reduced price.

[Daryk]

Will do... give me a few to finish going over the forum.

EDIT: Yep, Veenah and Heather buy everything at half price.

[Gehennis]

In the Water Node my 11th level sorcerer just finished off the hezrou guardian and the 2 large water elementals with Cone of Cold- which did 22d6+0= 88 damage. If the max is supposed to be 10d6 damage, would the feats Spell Focus Evocation and Greater Spell Focus Evocation account for this- or do I just have Dr. Strange in my party? Spells in effect were Bless, Prayer and Haste for the sorcerer (well everyone really but these were the only ones affecting her), Stinking Cloud on the monsters and for the melee types Stoneskin, Cat's Grace, Protection from Evil and Enlarge Person (the cleric/fighter had Righteous Might in effect).

[gazra_1971]

Originally posted by Sitra Achara:

Fire spells now do double damage in the Fire Node (as per the module; and half damage in the Water Node). Cold spells now do double damage in the Water Node. The damage die are doubled or halved in the relevant nodes (x2 for fire on Fire Node, 1/2 for fire on Water Node, and vice versa; rounded down for 1/2). Watch out for 20d6 Fireballs and 22d6 Cones of Cold!

[Nightcanon]

Just got to Verbobonc in 7.8 and have been checking out the merchants' row. The signs are a big improvement.
I was pleased to find bulk buying of arrows is possible at Aerich Dragonbanes (I get through a fair few these days!). However, I think he also sold me a +1 holy light xbow for about 9cp, which was a surprise. I was half expecting there to be something wrong with it but it seems to work as a regular holy weapon.

Has the Zuggtmoy battle been adjusted at all recently? The fungi she summoned were pretty tricky, which I can't remember from previous games. Then again, prior to discovering NC she didn't last longer against Scather + full power attack + strength buffs + haste, and since NC I've tended to do other stuff first and ticked her off as an afterthought at around 17th level...

[Gaear]

Zugg has not been adjusted. You may be feeling the pinch now because Moathouse Respawn and all of Verbobonc are no longer available before Zugg ... which was the intention. Hopefully players will start finding that part of the game hard again.

[Nightcanon]

Thought that might be the case. Perhaps she just wasn't surviving long enough to summon when I did the preNC campaign- though in fact I think I used to destroy the skull first, which is supposed to weaken her a bit iirc.
I have mixed views on the Hickory Branch news- I'm sure it will be fantastic, but I love HB as it is, too. I usually go at the first opportunity, so not quite 5th level, and it seems so well balanced for that. Go cautiously and pull back early and it is challenging but doable; take on one fight too many without checking what healing you have available and it could be tpk time. Still, looking forward to the new stuff too.

[Daryk]

Now that would be an idea: retain the existing Hickory Branch at its current point in the game, and add a follow on base at higher level...

[Gehennis]

The good news is that I have finished my round of playing thru the alignments with the TN party being the last- while the neutral alignments don't get offered the rewards of some of the good alignments they don't suffer the problem of not being able to use evil or chaotic weapons- and of course they can use holy weapons as well which makes them a good alignment for those that want to use any weapon w/o consequence.

The bad part of this is that due to my forgetting to backup my saves before trying out the new front end (shame, shame!), I've only the 2 saves each from my last 4 alignments played- LE, CG, CN and TN. The upside is that now I can go back and try new party builds, strategies and whatnot- and considering that some of those other play thrus were done before some of the NC was moved to Verbononnoc, I think I might actually have to think up some new ways to play the game- which is were all the fun comes from of course...

[sirchet]

Gehennis said:

The upside is that now I can go back and try new party builds, strategies and whatnot- and considering that some of those other play thrus were done before some of the NC was moved to Verbononnoc, I think I might actually have to think up some new ways to play the game- which is were all the fun comes from of course..

You speak from my heart brother.

[Gaear]

@Gehennis, at some point I would like to interview you about your experiences with Zugg with all the alignments, as that whole thing is one of the last vanilla elements we still need to troubleshoot. We need to know about any oddities, hangups, etc. etc. I know you've detailed them all to some extent above, but a condensed version would be nice.

The main reason for this is the NC-related disabling of the endgame after you deal with her.

Re: Hickory Branch, that train has sailed. It has to be moved to restore balance, end of story. While it's creation and that of all the other NC is laudable, we were wrong to just plop all that in the middle of the game and assume there would be no carryover effect.

[Gehennis]

@Gaer- just let me know what you're looking for and what kind of format you want it in- I'll load up the saves I have from just before confronting Zuggy to refresh my memory (although I tend to play some of the neutral alignments as less combative towards Zuggs, i.e., they just want the gem hoard). My only comment on moving Hickory Branch is this- what- now I have to buy arrows?

[Nightcanon]

Hi Gaear, I certainly wasn't complaining re moving HB, and I'm sorry if it came out that way. I loved the fact that the NC stuff meant I could almost play an entirely separate game post-Moathouse, which made a change from dungeon-crawling the temple for the nth time, but you're right that it then does alter the challenge level of the vanilla content . Zugg at level 12 without destroying the skull first and various style restrictions (notably no Scather or flashy magic) was a great challenge, and one I'vemissed out on in the past as I suggested.. Of course, it cuts both ways. I've been accustomed to doing the early Verbo quests at around level 7-9, so going with a bunch of 13th level PCs I breezed through the drow and white dragons. From that point of view the new, harder HB sounds great.

[Gehennis]

Have just refinished the temple with a new LG party composed of fighter 1/paladin 12, fighter 1/cleric 12, fighter 1/cleric 12, rogue 13, wizard 13 and sorcerer 13- observations as follows:

1- Balor guardians can fall to the Mind Fog spell, which cuts their save vs. Abjuration spells in half- very handy when casting Dismissal...

2-doing nearly all good quests while defeating all the bad guys raised the party to level 13 by the time the fought Zuggy. W/O destroying the skull she has 882 HP, destroying it she had 601 HP. The responses went like this:

a- meet the hag- chose responses 2, 2, 1, 3 (eye appears), 1 (exit)

Apply buffs, move a little and meet Zuggy in true form. Responses are this:

If the Intimidate skill of the party's spokesman is high enough 1-"No, Zuggtmoy you shall die like all the others in your worthless temple!", 2- [attack], 3- [try to run], 4- [soil yourself]

3- Zuggy attacks. "You think you are my equal?" etc. (summoned 2 vrocks this time but not for several rounds).

4- at 3 HP Zuggy speaks: "Stop mortal! You have powers that I did not imagine. Let us stop this fighting. I will surrender."

a- Responses are: 1- "You expect mercy? What do you offer for quarter?" and 2- "No foul demon! You shall have no mercy, just as you have shown none to all of your victims!" I went with 2 .

5- defeat Zuggy, movie plays, take gem hoard and teleport to Verbobonnoc.

The wizard has the Heighten Spell metamagic feat, which came in handy. Not as much crafting done as before, especially for weapons- only did the shortbow of the rogue and the crossbows of the wizard and sorcerer- +1 to each and only 1 other enhancement on each: Holy for the rogue's shortbow, axiomatic for the sorcerer's light crossbow and shock for the wizard's heavy crossbow.

2 minor things: had to get rid of Spell Permanency on the sorcerer (invisible) and one of the clerics (protection from Elements-Fire)- the spell effects were gone but the characters retained the spell's affects- i.e. the sorcerer maintained a transparent, almost ghostly look and the cleric still had the ring of flames around her. None of this seems to have affected the game though...