Problems over lone monsters activating in darkened rooms, etc

Here is a big problem that really needs a skilled operator to fix:

I have noticed that sometimes in the Temple or the Moathouse the following bug can happen.

- I can enter an area, have a battle, or just start a battle, but flee before all the monsters are dead. Later I can come back to an adjacent area, and not enter the area I previously encountered, leaving all doorways into that previous area closed, and so leaving the previous area in darkness and try to move past it, and lo, and behold, a combat still starts as one of the monsters inside the darkened previously entered area activates inside that area (say a room), and the only way to end the combat is either to enter that area, activate all the other monsters in it and fight and kill them, or flee again. Sometimes fleeing is not an allowable option. So one then has to risk the party in a fight when maybe fighting is suicidal. End of game at this point if in Ironman mode.

Here's an example. In the moathouse you go down the passage underground to where the bugbears live, fight them but flee. Next time you go down but at the intersection you veer off toward the rest of the underground level. Alas, as you creep along a different passage from the one to the bugbears, one (it's always one!) bugbear activates in the darkness and combat begins, only your party is way off in another passage, and now you either have to flee back up a level, or trek back along the passage, then go back up the other passage to the lone bugbear and fight him along with all the other bugbears that now activate. This is silly, but the game system behaves this way. Waiting for the bugbear to come out doesn't work by the way so you have to double back and take them all on, even if you didn't want to.

It gets even worse in the Temple. Once Falrinth has turned hostile against the party, the following can take place. Since Falrinth's room is in a section of the 3rd level of the Temple geographically separate to the rest of the level, connected only by a blue door icon, but nonetheless appearing on the map as part of that level, if a party activates Falrinth, flees, and then enters the rest of the 3rd level but wanders in such a way as to pass near Falrinth then Falrinth, in his separate section, in the dark, activates and combat begins. The problem is that since he activated for combat in that part of 3rd level separate from the part the party is in then the party cannot get to him to fight him. Now if the party is also prevented from fleeing, the game can go no further. Believe me this has happened to me and I had to restart (I was in Ironman mode). When a combat starts the party cannot go through the little blue doors so it is impossible to go from one area to the next to fight Falrinth when he activates and your party is in the other part of level 3. Did you get all this ? I know it sounds confusing but when it happens to you then you will know what I am talking about. Anyway this needs to be fixed.

Another related problem in the Temple is the Ghouls and Ghasts on Level 1 in the rooms on the left hand side. If they get activated and the party flees then sometimes something wierd happens; the ghouls, and ghasts start appearing at the staircases up to/down from groundfloor, or standing in the corridors, and always in groups on top of each other as if they were all one monster, a writhing mass of limbs and heads. Further to this they don't go hostile when the party approaches most of the time. This is a bug surely and needs to be fixed. A similar thing happens with ghouls/zombies encountered as wandering monsters but fled from on level1 or so I have noticed. Has anyone else had this problem ?

Changes to fix this could be that monsters only activate if they can, and do, move to the party and not if the party has to move to the monster. This should fix the problem with Falrinth. Further if the ghouls and ghasts are encountered and fled from, they should be made to stay in their rooms with a fix. Wandering zombies and ghouls should also be fixed to stay where they were encountered as with other wandering monsters fled from.
Any ideas here anybody ?

 

Or start running BEFORE the battle. blaaahaaahaaa

 

Flee combat was added in one of the patches I belive. The game really wasn't designed to work like this. When they set up the triggers that activate the monsters they never planned that you would flee.

I think it might be possible to fix this, but the solution would probably cause other bugs as I would have to tinker with the monsters detection systems.

There might be a way to fix the flee combat system, but that as far as I can tell is hard code.

If I get a chance I will take a look at it, but until then I think your best solution is to not flee combat...

If you need to scout ahead then use Invisibility or sneaking characters instead... I realize that isn't much help, but as noted flee combat really wasn't planned.

- Livonya

 

The problem I described was NOT about fleeing combat. To Allyx, Martinius and those who think I am complaining about fleeing combat or that I am having a problem with fleeing combat please read what I have written carefully. The problem is two fold: a) there is a problem in the game where a lone monster previously encountered but left alone remains active even though the party has left the area. When the party returns the monster re-activates but not in the way that monsters normally activate. Normally monsters activate when you first encounter them and then you deal with them there and then. But if you flee, and this is desirable sometimes for strategic reasons, and come back later to an adjacent area where the original monster is not present and should not therefore activate, lo, and behold, the lone monster in the other area which you had no intention of encountering at this stage comes to life and re-activates. The problem is it doesn't do anything but stand there in it's darkened room waiting for the party to attack it. The game however has gone into combat mode so if the party doesn't go to attack it, and the monster doesn't come out to attack the party (common occurrence) then the combat goes on forever and the game can go no further, if you can't flee again in order to reset the game back to explore mode (which can happen, because fleeing is sometimes disallowed).

In certain situations, such as with Falrinth this can completely stuff up the game. This is because Falrinth is in a small but disconnected section of the temple's 3rd level. If the party is in the other part of 3rd level and Falrinth activates in his darkened room because the party wandered near him but the party is still in the other bigger part of 3rd level the game goes into combat mode but combat cannot occur because Falrinth is one part of level 3, and the party is in the other part and the two parts are disconnected so that the party cannot move to where Falrinth is in combat mode. The little blue door that joins the two parts of level three here does not work in combat. So the combat starts but can never end unless the party can flee and reset the game to explore mode. If fleeing is denied however the game is effectively dead as the combat can never be resolved and so the party can never leave where ever it is when the combat started.

b) The ghasts and ghouls and zombies appearing in strange groups in corridors and on top of stairs is also related to fleeing encounters but again my complaint is NOT about fleeing but about the fact that when a party flees and later comes back to level one of the temple those ghouls, ghasts and zombies are sometimes outside their designated rooms or wherever they were supposed to be and are now bunched up on the stairs or standing on top of each other in corridors. They then seem to be non-hostile for much of the game and the party can pass them which shouldn't be.

My complaint is therefore about bugs in the game which cannot handle a party fleeing and then coming back to an area. If fleeing is going to remain an option in combat (and it should) then these bugs need to be worked out.

To those who think my complaint was about fleeing combat and that one should never flee combat to avoid the problems I have mentioned I say this: one, the designers put the option to flee in the game so they must have reckoned it was worthwhile to include it; b) discretion is the better part of valour; c) he who lives and runs away lives to fight another day; d) the game is meant to be enjoyed and enjoyment doesn't come from doing idiotic and oafish things like playing for ten, twenty or more hours only to sacrifice one's carefully built up party on a pointless combat where the odds turn out to be suicidal; and e) rushing headlong into every combat regardless of the odds is what leads to short life and a painful death and only morons and beserker types do this. The best warriors know when to retreat and come back when the odds have improved. Brains as well as braun win combats, not just mindless muscle!

I repeat: this complaint is about a technical bug or bugs when using the flee combat option. It is not about fleeing per se, but about the bugs.

 

Allyx's advice doesn't fix the problem with Falrinth. Allyx: read what I have written above about Falrinth. Here there is a problem to do with the way the designers at Troika set up the temple's 3rd level, specifically the way the blue stairwell/door icons de-activate once combat starts. The part of the temple where Falrinth lives is only connected to the rest of the 3rd level by a little blue door icon. These icons do not function once combat starts so IF you are not in that part of 3rd level where Falrinth lives when Falrinth mysteriously activates and starts a combat against the party then the party can not get to Falrinth to finish the combat. It doesn't matter about whether you think you are 'tough enough' or not, that's not the problem. You cannot even get to Falrinth !

3rd level is not one level, it's divided into three parts, and two of these parts are only connected by that blue door icon unuseable once combat starts. I had a situation once where I encountered Falrinth, decided to flee for strategic reasons, and then entered the main part of 3rd level, separate from the bit where Falrinth lives. I explored this, and then decided to go back to Hommlet. To leave the main part of 3rd level I chose to exit via the trapdoor stairwell (the little blue ladder) bottom left corner of the map main part of 3rd level. This connects to the little door next to Falrith's room. Problem was that as my party approached the little blue ladder before getting to the little part of 3rd level where Falrith lives Falrinth activated for combat ! The result: my party was trapped in one part of 3rd level and Falrinth was in another part and my party could not get to Falrinth ! Not by any means. End result: the game remained in permanent combat mode. I could not flee to reset the game to explore mode (when I tried message came up: 'invalid action') and I could not get to Falrinth because he was in one part of 3rd level and my party was in another part and the two parts were disconnected except through the blueladder/door icons which are unuseable in combat. This is my complaint!

I think the game designers should've put in something that ended combat if no PC or NPC hits or effects another after so many rounds. This would solve the problem that I am explaining.

Also my complaint was also about those undead ghouls, ghasts and zombies that appear mysteriously on stairwells and in corridors. No-one has addressed this, yet it is a problem, and seems to be associated with fleeing.
I have noticed that if one flees the ghouls and ghasts on level one in the temple, or flees a wandering group of ghouls or zombies on level one, then they sometimes mysteriously move to/appear on the stairwells or in corridors, always bunched up on each other, like a many headed, many-limbed monster. This is obviously a bug.

Sometimes this happens also if a party member uses Turn Undead in a corridor adjacent to the room on the west side of level one of the temple, with the party in the adjacent corridor. The ghoul and ghasts in the as-yet unexplored room next to the corridor then also mysteriously move to the stairwells or in the corridors on subsequent visits to level one even if the party hasn't encountered them yet by going into their room. This is also a bug.

 

ive never encountered any of those problems. ive gone into falnirth's room without setting off combat and have never had any problems with undead, i rarely use turn undead since you dont xp for it but when i do they either are destroyed or hide in a corner untill i come kill them. ive never tried fleeing a battle before though cause if im getting to beat up i leave the temple and rest up and come back. thats one thing i love about this game no random encounters in the halls so i can limp out with out a fight lol.

 

If you destroy undead with turn undead, you do get the XP for it.

 

i havent i check my xp before the fight and after and it stayed the same. if i did id use it all the time.

 

Well, it depends on what CR the undead are compared to your level. If they're really wimpy, you won't get XP no matter what. But if you click the d20 in the corner after a battle, it will tell you how much XP you earned for that battle. Undead destroyed via Turn Undead do grant you XP if you would normally get XP for them. I've never had the game not give me XP for it excepting when I'm too high a level for the CR of the undead in question.