I need help to build my party plz

Hi,

I have already cleared the moathouse but I am bit unhappy with my choice of feats and skills and I am thinking of restarting the game. This is how my party looks like:

1) Male dwarven fighter/barbarian (tank)
2) Female halfling rogue/ranger
3) Male human cleric
4) Male gnome bard (spokesman)
5) Female elven wizard
6) Female elven druid

I haven't mentioned alignments as those are bound to change according to the build I need to make but my party will be True Neutral for sure. In terms of flavour, I want my next party to look exactly the same but I want to maximize its effectiveness. I am currently using the Co8 5.0.0 modpack with the cumulative mod patch 5.0.6. I have kept the level cap to 10 levels and I do not wish to explore the craft system, so I will be relying on the magical items found ingame. I am thinking of building my characters according to the best magical weapons in the game, namely the bastard sword Fragarach and the heavy sword Scather. My dwarven tank will carry the bastard sword while my ranger/rogue will carry the 2h sword.

Let's start with stats.
I am exploiting a little bug in the game to boost my character's stat to raise it to a total of 88 points which I distribute freely. With the stat boosts at level 4 and 8, they will have a total of 90 points in stats and this is how I intend to build my characters (Str/Dex/Con/Int/Wis/Cha):

1) Fig/Barb 20/14/20/12/14/10 (I think my fighter may need the 4 points of wisdom to raise his will saves, correct me if I am wrong. The 4 points in Dex is to raise the number of AoO. As a note, for balance issues, I do not want any of my characters' stats to go beyond 20 without magical means)
2) Rang/Rog 18/20/16/16/10/10
3) Cle 16/12/14/12/20/16
4) Bard 14/18/16/14/10/18
5) Wiz 14/20/16/20/10/10
6) Drd 16/16/14/14/20/10

Let's continue with the class choices

Most of my characters are pretty simple to build as to this aspect as they have just a single class.
My dwarf will get 2 levels of Barb and 8 levels of Fighter.
However, I am having trouble with my Ran/Rog character as I don't know how to split the levels. My initial thought was to give her 2 levels of Rang just to get the free feat at level 2, and 8 levels in Rogue so as to get the Improved Uncanny dodge feat and a decent sneak attack. I want her to be an archer-like character in the early levels but will later become a second tank when she gets one of the more powerful weapons. Is it ok like that?

Let's continue with the skills

1) Apart from Intimidate, what else could be useful for my bar/fighter? a few points in listen and survival maybe...
2) Ran/Rog: Hide, Move silently, open lock, disable device, search, sleight of hand, tumble, use magic device and heal
3) Clr: Diplomacy, Heal, Concentrate, Spellcraft
4) Bard: Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Bluff, tumble, use magic device, perform, gather information, appraise, concentration, spellcraft
5) Wiz: Apart from Concentrate and Spellcraft, I don't see any other useful skills. Maybe heal and tumble...
6) Druid: Concentrate, Spellcraft, Heal, Listen, Spot, Survival

Let's end with the feats

Now, that's the tough part, I have absolutely no clue which feats are the most useful in the game. I have some ideas, so please feel free to correct me and/or make your own suggestions.

1) Fight/Barb: power attack, cleave, great cleave, exotic weap prof (bastard sw), dodge, mobility, spring attack, combat reflexes, combat expertise, improved trip
2) Ran/Rog: Quick draw, precise shot, power attack, cleave, great cleave
I will take the archery extra feat (rapid shot) at 2nd level of Ranger?
Which favored enemy should I pick?
3) Clr: Combat casting, extra turning, improved turning, power attack??? Cleave???
Also, which domains should I pick?
4) Bard: Combat casting, quick draw ??? (both melee and ranged character), combat expertise??? , improved feint (because of high cha)???
5) Wiz: Combat casting, spell focus (evo), spell focus (conj), imp. spell focus???, augment summoning???, spell penetration???
6) Drd: Combat casting, spell focus (conj), augment summoning, imp. spell focus (conj).... is natural spell worth taking instead of imp. spell focus?





Thanks for your patience guys!!!

 

I guess I am confused. You want to keep the party the same but max effectiveness. So what exactly are we allowed to suggest that you change?

 

I think it's more productive to play the game many times and find out what you like and don't like, what works and what doesn't. Making a certain choice of character skills, feats or anything else is not going to be game breaking if you don't happen to choose the most effective or power gaming choices. I find it more fun now to choose things that are not considered most effective or power gaming because it makes each game play out differently. Considering that a person can really blow through the whole game in a day makes for wonderous variety.

 

On the skills:

I never use heal, it sounds good, but about 10 minutes into the game you have healing potions, just spread them around. Anybody close enough to use the heal skill can just use a potion on someone. Also, since you have a druid, always make goodberries before resting, at least early in the game then pass them around.

On some skills, only the largest one in the party counts, so no need to give appraise, listen, survival, etc to more than one. Have your face concentrate on the talking skills, spellcasters need concentration and spellcraft, rogue needs open lock & disable device. Druid or ranger or barbarian needs survival.

Give everybody tumble, even as a cross class skill. Everyone needs to be able to move through the combat area, you never know how the computer will decide how you get from point A to point B.

 

I want to keep the party the same as far as races and class choices go. Feel free to make suggestions for the rest: feats and skills. Please also feel free to answer any of the questions I have asked in my original post.

Main worry No1: Is it ok to make a ranger 2 / rogue 8 character? Is the distribution of levels alright (considering what I want to achieve)?

Main worry No2: When it comes to feats, I am really at a loss concerning which feats are really effective in the game. As you may have noticed, I have put 3 question marks next to some feats. This is because I am not even sure if I should pick those ones. For example, is quick draw worth taking? What about Spell penetration? How about combat feats like improved trip for my tank or improved feint for my bard?

Additional questions:
Which domains should I pick for my cleric?
Which favored enemy should I pick for my ranger? Humans?

As far as skills go, if I understood correctly General Ghoul's advice, Heal is not a must, but tumble is (even as a cross-class skill). How about use magic device?

Thanks in advance, guys and good job Co8 team for this great mod!!!

 

Personally I think Quick Draw has limited value. It would be nice to have for an archer character who gets forced into melee, but it doesn't seem crucial.

For warrior types I follow one of two paths: defensive or offensive.

Defensive tanks should have heavy armor, shields, and take feats that enhance defense like Dodge and Mobility. Clerics and cleric/fighter hybrids are particularly good for this.

Offensive warriors are more fun, IMO. I go with Power Attack and Cleave to start, then work my way up to Great Cleave. Combat Reflexes is good to have, too, especially if you give your warrior a weapon with reach and cast Enlarge Person on him so he threatens a large area. This kind of warrior lives on Attacks of Opportunity and cleaving, and eventually he'll be able to slaughter a whole mob of enemies in one turn.

Dedicated missile characters should take Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot to start with.

 

It would seem your defensive tank would not go for Dodge and Mobility, since you could dump DEX since most heavy armors limit its effectiveness. While they would fit right in with a lighter armor (elven chains) high DEX fighter. I always give the best heavy armor to my cleric as his mobility is not as necessary as my front line fighters



I like Use Magic Device for bards and rogues, nothing like an extra fireball or chain lightning wand thrown into the mix, plus they can use things like Monk Belts or let them wear Robes of the Arch Magi.

 

I like clerics of Pelor with Strength and Sun, and clerics of C. Larethian with War and Good.

I don't give advice to evil clerics, except to wise up. They do not have the ability to cast any spell as healing, like good and positive neutrals can. "Inflict Light Wounds" is for evil clowns.

 

Ok, the more I learn about the game, the more I see the need of changes in my party configuration. Here's an excel file that sums up everything. I would be really grateful if you could take a look at it.

http://rapidshare.com/files/407506346/Characters.xls


Some questions:

1) Are the druid's shapeshifting forms worthwhile for melee combat?

2) I will exploit a bug to get both Fragarach and Scather. However, will my gnome and halfling be able to wield them (as they have small statures)? I think it doesn't matter if they are proficient or not with those swords as they always hit, right?

 

I don't have much experience with melee druids, though I'm sure Hill Giant form has possibilities.

But since you're going for max effectiveness, why build a melee druid when you've already got both fighter and ranger, plus the druid's animal companion? Your Spell Focus Conjuration + Augment Summoning is the right way to go. The cleric is a good melee fighter when he has to be - the druid, not so much.

I've always had the character who uses Scather take a proficiency, but I think you can use the sword without it.

A gnome can't use it, though. Consider making your bard a human or half-elf instead. Make sure your bard has Tasha's Hideous Laughter, because it's a killer in this game. I've taken out more enemies in one shot with THL than with any super-sword.

 

I might add: Gnomes are kind of misplaced in 3rd ed. D&D. They used to be fighter/illlusionists, now they've been given an affinity for bard that makes less sense.

Gnomes do better as rogues, clerics, or wizards than they do as bards, IMO.

 

Thanks a lot!

1) I am not making a rogue/ranger anymore but rather a rogue 9 / barbarian 1 (for the rage). This character would use one of the special swords to always deal damage and sneak attack damage as well (I intend to take the improved feint feat so to have max chances to deal sneak attack damage). I believe I will also need 2 support melee characters, hence the cleric and the druid.

2) Does the weapon restriction apply to halflings as well? Can someone please confirm that gnomes and/or halflings cannot use either Scather or Fragarach?

 

Hi Pouffie

The Royal Canadian

 

Hi Pouffie
I just took a look at your party. Here are some suggestions.
1.) Skills: As someone pointed out earlier, "Heal" is one of the most useless skills in the game. Since you have a Druid in your party here is what you do. Let's say you arrive in Hommlet for the first time at 11 AM. Go ahead and talk to everyone, do as many quests in town as you can. Afterwords, get a room a the Inn. Convert all of your Druid's first level spells to "Goodberry". Rest 8 hours and cast all your Goodberry spells. Switch the Druid spells back to Entangle, etc... and rest until morning or 8 hours, whichever is longer.
2.) Skills you MUST have. Try to make sure that everybody in your party has at least a few points in "Listen" and "Spot". This will reduce the chances of your characters being "surprised" during an encounter and losing their action for one round. Somebody in the first row should have a decent "Survival" score, which will help you avoid Random Encounters.
3.) Feats: A couple of notes about your characters. Seeing as this is your first go through, I would recommend using some of the crafting feats, especially as you are playing with the Level 10 cap. Trust me, even with crafted items, some of the fights at the end can be tricky unless you really know what you are doing. Your Fighter should take Weapon Focus/ Specialization/ Greater Weapon Focus in some weapon (Dwarven War Axe ??). A fighter who picks Weapon Focus in a weapon, starts with that weapon in his/her inventory. Combat Casting is not really necessary, especially if your casters have a decent CON (yours do) and you try to max out you Concentration Skill. The only people I would give the "Power Attack" and "Cleave" feats to, are your front-line "Tanks" (your fighter and you cleric). Don't worry about the Extra Turning and Improved Turning for your Cleric, as the Undead aren't a serious threat in this game. I've never used "Improved Feint" so I have no idea how it works, but there are tow things to keep in mind. 1.) make sure you have a good "Bluff" skill. 2.) Doing a feint counts as your "move" for that round, so if you try to feint a monster and it fails, your stuck.


QUOTE=pouffie;97377]Ok, the more I learn about the game, the more I see the need of changes in my party configuration. Here's an excel file that sums up everything. I would be really grateful if you could take a look at it.

http://rapidshare.com/files/407506346/Characters.xls


Some questions:

1) Are the druid's shapeshifting forms worthwhile for melee combat?
Not really. To be honest with you, a Druid should not be used as a frontline "Tank" unless he/she has a lot of hitpoints and a good AC.


2) I will exploit a bug to get both Fragarach and Scather. However, will my gnome and halfling be able to wield them (as they have small statures)? I think it doesn't matter if they are proficient or not with those swords as they always hit, right?
If you have a CG or CN character wielding them, they always hit (making Power Attack a useful feat to have). As I pointed out earlier, Gnomes and Halflings can't use them though.[/QUOTE]

If you want to take a look at a party I just finished with ( I also had Meleny and Elmo along) the attached file is a compressed Excel Spreadsheet listing the PCs, their stats, their ability scores, and their feats.
The Royal Canadian