Which feat?

Cleave starts from a blow that knocks a target negative in hit points (makes it fall), and is a continuation of that attack. No successive attack is necessary.

Is this a language issue? :shrug:

I am saying that an attacker with 2 attacks per turn strikes a target on the first attack, knocks it negative, and continues that attack against a successive target. The animation "reattacks" the the successive target. But the attacker's second attack for that turn hasn't been used and would then be applied to the original target, even though the target is down (unless it's dead).

I'm certainly not an expert here, but this is what I've seen.

Rats, you've ninja'd me on your own question! :ninja:

Good Work, suckering me into your clever ambush! I'll get you! :rant:

 

Ninja attack!

Where?

Over there!

I don't see anything.

They're GOOD, aren't they? :ninja:

 

That is what happens normally, unless you use "Full Attack". Then you (should technically) get a chance to pick your target for a second attack. However, it's pretty bugged and doesn't happen all the time.

I'd disagree, because Great Cleave doesn't give you extra attacks per round, it simply continues your Cleave. If Cleave succeeds to drop an opponent, Great Cleave comes in, even if the character only has one attack per round. Whirlwhind, on the other hand, gives you extra attacks regardless of enemy HP. I guess I see your point, but imo Whirlwhind fits better with the current progression. Don't use it too often though, tbh, I'd rather develop Great Cleave or double-wielding.

 

I don't really see what Whirlwind has to do with Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, and Expertise.

I agree that because of the current tree, I also would choose Great Cleave.

 

Cleave & Great Cleave are feats based of character strength, while Whirlwind is based off dexterity, hence the tree. The prerequisites allow you to act faster, etc. The Expertise should really be off the list though.

 

What happens when Great Cleave is triggered in the middle of a Whirlwind Attack?

 

Mayhem and carnage.



But in all honesty, how often do you fight a group of opponents that you would keep dropping them to get much use from Great Cleave? And when you do, why would you need the feat to defeat such lowly opponents? If you're being swarmed by a group of kobolds or goblins, and you are high enough level to have Great Cleave, you will wipe them out in a couple of rounds without taking damage anyways.

 

I usually have the ability to pick up Great Cleave around 5-6 level, but I rarely take it because of your reasons. But Cleave does seem to be better implemented here than in the Infinity engine games. There, I had no idea what it was.

I experienced Whirlwind Attack in the V&W mod, and it seems to have a use in this game. Though by the the time you get it, there aren't very many opportunities to use it as it is rare for enemies to survive long enough to surround your fighter.

 

Well, GC has uses, at the very least gives you a chance to smack an extra opponent with a second cleave attack. more than 3 in a row rarely happens though. You can set up GC chains on purpose though =))

 

I saw Otis Great Cleave 6 Greater Temple Bugbears with the Radiant Ransuer in one whack. Admittedly most had been softened up by a Spike Growth, my halfling Ranger/Rogue Archer with rapid shot, and a Fireball or two, but even a weak Greater Temple bugbear is dangerous. He whacked one trying to take a healing potion and just kept going till they were all gone WITH two critical's for over thirty hp dmg in there..

 

Well, but exactly HOW OFTEN does that happen? Chances for that are pretty slim tbh.

 

maybe the quantity is not that important. It might just be worth it to enjoy watching it once! This is certainly a key difference between ToEE and PnP.

 

I am not an experienced player, which may have a lot to do with why I like it, but I LOVE Great Cleave! My fighter, Armstrong, is L4 and clobbers enemies right and left (so to speak) quite often. I equipped him with a Masterwork Ranseur...am just getting ready to go to the Temple 2nd level, so don't have the Radiant Ranseur yet. Otis also has Great Cleave. Between the two of them, fights don't last very long at all. I gave Elmo Dual Wield, which is very helpful when he misses the first blow, as the second generally doesn't. Between those three, my archers and mages hardly have to work at all, although I expect that to change soon.

Edit: Apologies if this is too far off topic, but I am having some trouble choosing feats for the mages. 1) I am confused at descriptions of some of the feats that increase the power of spells. When it says a spell will take up a space a level higher than it normally would, just what does that mean in playing terms? Does it bump off other spells? Do you have to wait until you are a level higher to utilize the spell? And 2) What feats are the most important for mages? I've already picked combat casting and point blank shot for most of them.

 

When a spell is subject to a metamgic feat and it states that the spell takes up a space (or more) of a higher level it means it takes up a higher level spell slot.

If , for example, you meta magicked, Magic Missle and the feat states it takes one spell slot higher, this means that the Magic Missle will be saved in a 2nd level spell slot, instead of 1st level. If the feat states 3 or 4 more levels higher, same thing goes. A first level spell would be saved in a 4th level slot (3 levels higher) or 5th level slot (4 levels higher).
It does afgfect the remaining number of spell slots you'll have.

For example: you have 5 1st level spell slots and 4 2nd level slots. You metamagic a 1st level spell that requires one level slot higher to be saved. This means you will only have 3 2nd level slots left for your 2nd level spells.

Using the metamagic feats can put a crimp in an overall arsenal of spells, but the spells you have meta magicked, are usually much more powerful and/or effective.

 

for Sorcerors, the metamagicked spell is treated sort of like a new known spell at the higher level. The only difference is that these metamagicked spells require a full-round action to cast. Sorcerors should not be able to use Quicken Spell, but I think ToEE allows it.